Being comfortable (with feeling uncomfortable): My public speaking journey
This is a transcript of Episode 27 of the First Time Facilitator podcast.Usually on the show I interview amazing facilitators, speakers and leaders but I’m going solo for today’s episode. This is the third solo episode I’ve recorded and these ones are usually spurred on by questions I receive from listenersSo the question this week was from a colleague and it was this:
“Leanne, how did you get the confidence to speak in front of large groups?”
There's a bit to unpack in that question. Its different for everyone. Interestingly, this question is about confidence; not about developing the skill.I'm going to share the real opportunity I had that lead me to feel more confident and now accept opportunities where I do speak in public. In saying that, I’m still human and continue to question my ability before accepting these opportunities. However, after talking to fellow facilitators and speakers on the podcast, that appears to be a fairly normal response. I guess the good thing about type of response, is that it keeps you on your toes and not operating in autopilot.The definition of large group is also different from everyone. I think anything above 30 is pretty large. From my experience, anything above 30 or 40 requires a microphone, probably a stage and some bright lights. I can give you a short and long answer for this but I took this question as a really good opportunity to reflect on the things that I actually did to position myself to accept large group speaking opportunities, with perceived confidence.
It was October 2014
I was living in a small, coastal regional town in Western Australia called Broome. I talk about Broome in a lot of episodes as I have find memories there. Imagine a place where in winter, you can swim at the beach, in summer it’s too hot to do anything. The population is very small, about 15,000 people. The closest town is a 2 hour drive away, the nearest capital city is Jakarta, Indonesia. You don’t really do things there. Your weekend plans are dictated by the tide times, everyone drives a 4wd and you spend most of your time in air conditioning, down the beach camping and fishing, with a cold beer in hand.
It was wonderful! However living there for 3.5 years you can become pretty complacent, and outside of work, I wasn’t really achieving a lot. I wanted to create some more discipline for myself.I thought I would set myself a ridiculous goal, something that would get me out of bed nice and early… literally... and that was to run a marathon. It was a big goal because growing up, I hated running. I loved playing netball, but I loathed the fitness element - I associated running with everything negative in life. However, living in this coastal town, there were no hills, no traffic, and because nothing really happened in town, I had time up my sleeve. This gave me the ultimate entry point to start. So I signed up for the GC Marathon.Not having a clue on how to do this, I enlisted a coach Pat Carroll. He’d won a few Gold Coast marathons. My goal was to simply finish under 5 hours.On a side note, this is a speech I did at Pecha Kucha, Broome about the whole marathon training experience.I’m sharing this story as there were a couple of words of phrases he said, that I think can generally be applied to this question about gaining confidence in speaking in front of large groups.I'm going to drop one of those phrases now and then again later on, in the episode. Pat said that a lot of people approach runs and start cross-training, ie. Do weights, swim or cycle. But HE SAID - and gosh, it sounds so simple - and you’re probably going to think I’m crazy to highlight this as some kind of watershed moment - but it was for me...
He said, "The best way to train for a marathon is, to simply, run".
You need to start banking those kilometres on your legs. You don’t need to do pilates, swim, hike, or play touch footy. Just run. Bank those kilometres on your legs. I loved that concept of banking kilometres. And I banked thousands of kilometre on my legs in those nine months.My most recent podcast guest, Neen James agrees with this. If you listened to my conversation with Neen in Episode 26, you would have heard her mention the phrase ‘Time on your feet.’So my short answer to that question, ‘How did I get the confidence to speak in public?’, well it was really about banking that time on my feet as a speaker.That leads onto the next question:
How do I find time in my feet, so when a marathon-like speaking opportunity comes along, I’m prepared?
If you go through school and Uni, that’s a good start and there are opportunities there, like high school English class presentations or the dreaded group assignment preso at University.I’ve also always loved seeing others kill it on stage. I have always been fascinated by the power of strong delivery, and what brilliant presentation looks like. I guess the difference I brought, was to continually to ask myself, "What can I do that is different? Who is in the audience, what do they want, what is the hook?”When I really think about why I care so much about making sure my message hits… it probably comes back to my philosophy about how life is too short.In Episode 16, I spoke with Adam Mustoe about the Gallup Strengths Finder 2 and my second highest strength theme is Maximiser. The Maximiser theme is really around ‘Do you want fries with that?’ and taking advantage of opportunities…you get caught out sometimes, particularly when travelling as you want to cram and juggle everything into a day. How this theme plays out also is that if I’m given the opportunity to present in front of other people, I want to maximise that moment. I believe you are in a position of great opportunity the second you have more than two people in the room. Life is too short to have your time wasted by boring, irrelevant and un-memorable presentations. When you’re the one in front of that room, don’t waste everyone else's time.And that’s my real driver for doing things differently.
Sport played a role.
I was lucky getting into netball from the age of 10. Through the game, I’ve been given opportunities to speak in front of others at occasions from speaking in team huddles during quarter breaks, to club presentation nights and dinners.In University, I started coaching more junior teams and I believe being a coach had a significant impact on my ability to deliver a message succinctly and projecting my voice - particularly when you have quarter and half time breaks to do that and your audience are 13 to 15 year olds.My first official MC gig was as on-court announcer for the Queensland State League netball finals back in 2003. I called the teams on the court, thanked sponsors, talked through key highlights of the match. Through this, I learned about the importance of time-keeping, how to speak clearly into a microphone, and the realisation that the role of MC is so much more than just the delivery. There is a lot of background work involved in who you need to liaise with, what your backup plans are, etc. Now when you start doing this sort of stuff, the people around you hear about it, and that opened doors as an MC’ing at friend’s weddings.
If you’re ever asked to MC a wedding, please say yes.
For two reasons in particular:
- It keeps you off the booze for a few hours so that you can avoid a painful hangover!
- The skill to being a wedding MC is about really making it a personal experience. So this experience forces you to tailor your message -for the couple, family and friends. Having that first wedding MC gig again opened up more invites to MC other events.
Can you see from this trail how it all works?
If we’re relate speaking back to running, I believe those school, netball and uni presentations were 5km runs. MC’ing a wedding is a half marathon.And unfortunately, similarly to running, you can’t go cold turkey for 6 months and then expect to run at the same pace you did while training.
So how can you continue to get that speaking experience?
I know a lot of the listeners are split, probably about 50% working in a full-time job and 50% freelance. For those working, there are so many opportunities to put your hand up and deliver presentations from where you stand.While I was working in Marketing for a company called Wicked Campers, we were sponsors of the annual Backpacker travel expo in Melbourne. As part of the sponsorship package, the company was offered an opportunity to run some sessions on travelling around Australia.I put my hand up.In my role working in Government in regional Western Australia, we had a fortnightly Friday morning video hook-up with the other campuses in the region called Communication Corridor. 
As I needed to share internal messages, I put my hand up and asked to be in the agenda, pretty frequently. I challenged myself to out-do my previous presentations over and over again.When it came to Friday morning, I also felt like whacking myself on the head and questioning myself on volunteering for these sessions and putting myself under undue pressure. It would have been much easier not volunteering and sitting in the crowd every fortnight, But, when we held a Professional Development week for all 200 staff in the region, guess who was asked to MC the event?In late 2016, I was asked to co-facilitate some leadership training in Brisbane. A few months later and I was onboard a flight to Canada to run the same workshop over there.
Time on your feet matters.
Not only does it give you more time to practice your presentation skills and experiment with content, but more importantly, you also get used to that feeling of uncomfortable-ness. You get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It also leads you to good things and great opportunities that you would never have realised. Every time you step up, it’s an opportunity for you to market yourself and build your personal brand. You get luckier. I think the best analogy that sums this up is the one I heard on Episode #49 of the Jordan Harbinger show. In this episode, Jordan chats to Alex Banayan about mentoring. In fact, its so good, I am going to share it for you below:There's no denying that luck plays a role in anyone's success.But it was in conversation with then-Microsoft executive Qi Lu that gave Alex a real understanding of lucks role in success.Qi Lu had grown up in a village outside of Shanghai, China that was so poor to the extent that there was only one teacher per 300 children and people developed deformities from malnutrition. Being very smart and working very hard, Qi was making seven dollars a month by the time he was 27. Like so many other intelligent, hard workers in China, he dreamed of a better life in America — so, he needed an advantage over the competition.As luck would have it, Qi had the opportunity to speak to a Carnegie Mellon professor lecturing at his local university. The professor had been so impressed by the questions he was asking and the papers he had written about the professor's area of expertise that Qi was offered a full scholarship to Carnegie Mellon.How did luck play into it? Under normal circumstances, Qi would have ridden his bicycle to visit his parents on that particular night of the week — but it was raining, so he stayed on campus, attended the lecture, and happened to be the most well-informed scholar in the room on the topic at hand. Thanks to his extra months of productivity, he was prepared when opportunity knocked.To Alex, Qi imparted this nugget of wisdom: Luck is like a bus. If you miss one, there will always be the next one. But if you are not prepared, you won't be able to get on.This encouraged Alex to do a little more digging into the science of luck, and from the research, it seems one thing is clear: luck is a mindset, not a phenomenon.
When I again reflect on that question, how did you get the confidence to speak in front of large groups?
As you can see, it’s an evolution piece underpinned by three things:
- Bank that time on your feet.
- Put your hand up and find the opportunities.
- Every time you have an opportunity to present, challenge yourself to stretch and outperform your previous presentation.
The second piece of advice from my running coach, Pat Carroll was not to be concerned by the fact that your longest training run does not take you near 42.2km. Save yourself for the marathon. Prepare consistently, stay injury free, and your solid preparation combined with race day atmosphere will allow you to go all the way.Nothing will prepare you for that marathon moment in front of hundreds of people with the spotlight on you, but you’ll get pretty close by banking the thousands of kilometres prior, and you can be confident to accept the opportunity, given the success you’ve had in the past.
I'd love to hear how you got your speaking experience.
How will you find that time on your feet? Where are you banking your speaking kilometres? Comment below!
Episode 25; Split brain workshop facilitation: How to balance the now with the ‘What’s next?' with Mark McKeon
In today’s episode, I talk to Mark McKeon about the parallels between creating high performance on the footy pitch; and high stake situations in a group workshop facilitation environment.
In today’s episode, I talk to Mark McKeon about the parallels between creating high performance on the footy pitch; and high stake situations in a group workshop facilitation environment.
Need some inspiration and motivation? Mark provides that in this episode, along with some extremely practical tips which you can start implementing in your facilitation game. We talk about the practicalities of workshop room setup, how to balance being in the moment with forecasting ahead to drive your workshop outcomes, maintaining energy levels and the key question he asks from client's to determine workshop outcomes.
Listen in to him when he talks about ways you can structure your day to be more productive using his Go Zone methodology.
In this episode you’ll learn:
How Mark pivoted from professional footballer, to high performance coach and facilitation/speaking
Parallels between playing and coaching in high performing footy matches/game day and preparing for a big workshop/stage
His requirements in terms of rooms setup and audiovisual setup (including practical takeaways for keeping your voice in check over a day’s workshop)
Why it’s important to be a little selfish during the day to maintain peak performance
The key question he asks clients to clarify the outcomes of a workshop (and why this is critical)
How to structure your day to get the most sustainable performance (and how we under-estimate the importance of recovery)
Why he channelled his inner James Bond to create a memorable message
What you need to know about using gimmicks and props in your workshops
About our guest
Mark McKeon is one of Australia’s leading experts on leadership, efficiency, productivity, work life balance and team cohesion. His latest book "Go Zone" reinforces all these factors.
He spent 16 years as the high performance coach at Collingwood, with the team also outsourcing their entire fitness and training function to Mark’s team. He was also Club Runner for more than 250 games, an AFL record, and worked with Victoria’s State of Origin Team on five occasions.
Mark previously played football in the VFL with the Melbourne team, and represented Victoria in the VFA. He presents keynotes and tailored sessions, and along with his team, conducts workshops and conference programs in lifestyle, team building and leadership. Mark consistently rates as, ‘exceedingly funny with a great message’ or ‘best conference speaker’. He spends time with delegates, and can MC or facilitate as well as present keynotes and workshops.
Mark has an insightful and engaging style and his uplifting presentations have been a conference highlight with lasting impacts for many years.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Quotes of the show:
“You don’t have to be a prisoner to the structure you’ve set for your workshop…I’m forever swapping slides around and stopping, accelerating and changing the times, all hopefully to the benefit of the audience”
“The best clues are always in the audience”
“The best facilitators approach their workshops with an audience-centric mindset’
“Start with the end in mind. One of the great dangers is that your outcomes are vague and you don’t know what you’re trying to achieve.
“Work on your craft. Look for every opportunity to speak in front of a room”
Video: Mark channelling his inner 007
First Time Facilitator podcast transcript with Lynne Cazaly (Episode 23)
Here is the episode transcript from my interview with Lynne Cazaly on Episode 23 of the podcast.
Leanne: Welcome to the First Time Facilitator Podcast, Lynne Cazaly.
Lynne: Great to be here.
Leanne: It's so great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I really appreciate it.
I'd love to start just by asking you the question on how you found your feet in the world of training and facilitation. Was it always something that you aspire to or is it something that you fell into?
Lynne: It's definitely something I fell into so my sense is a lot of people don't kind of leave school or during school girl. I'm going to be a facilitator. I think that they've got some capabilities that kind of lend themselves to being great facilitators.
So my background was as a Communications Specialist so I had a background in public relations, I worked in health, sports, art, media government and I did some lecturing at university and communications and consulting and communications and so I was learning a lot about what people think and how they communicate with each other. But the constant theme through all of those roles that I had was that I was playing this interpreter role, I was kind of working for a company, listening to what the management and leadership and the board and directors and everything was saying and then interpreting that for their community and their stakeholders and then I'd be listening to the community and stakeholders and interpreting that for the organization so I became this what I think you could call a boundary rider like in sports, you know it's a person who's got one leg on either side of the boundary lot.
Leanne: Yeah, it’s really a cool time.
Lynne: So yeah, there I was really what I was doing was facilitating communication between different parties and different stakeholders and groups as well as working with communication. And people started asking me, “Oh, will you facilitate our strategy day or our comms plan or our sales plan?” and I thought, “Oh, I'll be able to do that. I’ll have a crack at that.” and that's what I did.
And then in early 2000s, I did an Advanced Diploma in facilitation with the Groupwork Institute here in Victoria and I kind of just topped off my experience with some of the great theory around facilitation. So yeah, it certainly wasn't a planned journey or a planned process but yeah I'm happy I found it. I wish I did know about it in those years when you're trying to make a decision about “What am I going to study? What am I going to be?”
Leanne: Yeah, you’re right because I think a lot of the facilitators that I've spoken to have been launched from different careers and it could be Project Management Communications like you said my background is in marketing as well.
Lynne: Right.
Leanne: We've got people that are Software Engineers.
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: And I think, one of the thing is the theme is within their organizations or their own context they are being asked to explain what they know and so they want to become really good at explaining it to people which is why they find facilitation and realize, “Hey, I actually really enjoy this.”
Lynne: Yes. So it becomes less about their subject matter knowledge and more about the act of helping people and helping people get their work done or helping people understand something.
Leanne: That's right. So when you ask to facilitate your first strategy day, we're talking all these years ago because you're very experienced now. I don't know if you can reflect on that time and sort of share what you were thinking or what your strategies were going into that day because it would have been pretty daunting if you had that experience.
Lynne: Yes, it was. Yeah, I was really nervous and you know just the thumping heart most of the day and couldn't sleep well the night before and wondering you know, “Will I stuff this up?” and “What will I do if they don't know what to do?” and “Is my agenda good?” So all of this self-doubt and so I think this is one of the things that is the biggest challenge is that this confidence and we end up being too much worried about ourselves and we forget about actually helping the people that were there to help. So yeah, I had the classic doubt, you know, paranoia- “I'm not good at this.” “I'll crash and burn.” “This will ruin my career.” Okay, I still have some of those thoughts.
Leanne: I was just going to ask you that question. I mean, are there nights where you've got some workshops there and keynote speeches that you've sort of refined over the years. Even with refined content to new audiences do you still sort of think the night before? Like, “Oh, gosh. How am I going to go…?”
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: Ah.
Lynne: Yeah and even if I'm not using much content that is I've crafted an agenda with them and so it's about them the participants contributing the content. Yeah I'm still thinking, “Gee, I don't even know these people and I'm going to walk into this room.” and every time I walk into a room to facilitate, a bunch of strangers, every time. So you've got to have this ability to rapidly build rapport and connect with people because you need them to be on your side to trust you really quickly that you're there to help them. Not to tell them what to do but to work with them and I don't think that just comes from cockiness like, “I'll be out of do this.” That gets you into a lot of trouble whereas more of the humility of going “Gee!” and curiosity of “Wow! I wonder what they need help with today.”
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: I wonder what I'll be able to help them do rather than “Gee, I hope it all goes well.” It may not go well you know and I'm hanging on to “Oh, it better go well.” Well, it's going to go, it's going to go.
Leanne: So coming from the place of curiosity is what we're experienced.
Lynne: Yeah, definitely! I wonder why that person said that. I wonder where they're going with that rather than “Gee, what a douche.” like “What's he doing and why she being such a…” No! Just going “That's really interesting. Hmm...” So that's some stuff I think that comes from the Groupwork Institute and their philosophy around facilitation which was you know just slowing things down and really being more of service to the room rather than thinking you've got to control everything.
Leanne: I think that's kind of difference between when you're delivering a speech which is a very it's kind of like a solo event and you definitely want to engage people and not want to be arrogant. The facilitation is about drawing people in and like you said make them feel comfortable and I think it is you need to show that authentically you are curious about what's going on for them especially I guess people come into your room from all walks of life and they come in with all different attitudes as well and sometimes it's very noticeable when someone just doesn't want to be there.
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: It's that something, how do you cope with that? It's like, I know from my experience when I first started it was my worst nightmare when I knew that someone wasn't interested I felt instantly a little bit anxious but now sought after talking to facilitator it's interesting finding out what their strategies are so how do you cope with that?
Lynne: Well, it happens all the time. Even last week I was facilitating a session and there was someone in the room and they're doing niche most of the time and then they're eating their lunch at the time that wasn’t lunchtime and in and out of the room, kind of going, “Yeah, do they not want to be here?” or you know “What's going on?” and I remember facilitating some workshops for a Logistics Firm and we had a lot of the drivers of the vehicles that would you know they had to come along to the sessions and a lot of the other team you know people working in the warehouse and mechanical people and admin, a customer service. A lot of them were very keen but the people who were driving the vehicles were just, it was totally this every time. They're like “What's…?” They'd look around the room that I'd set up with you know nice post-it notes and markers and stuff and they go, “What's this shit?” Literally what they would say. “This looks like my kid's room. What's this crap, what are we doing today?” and I never engaged in an “Oh, you're here to do blah blah blah…” You know I never went into that parental or teacher mode. I just zip it and think, “Yeah of course, they're going to come in here.” and wonder “What this is? I just want to be in their truck delivering, you know delivering the products and doing that sort of work. I don't want to be in a workshop.”
Leanne: No.
Lynne: So again, I think I'm not here to fix them but I'm here to again build trust as quickly as I can and build engagement throughout the session and time and time again in those sessions around changed. Some of those drivers would come up to me at the end and they shake my hand they go, “Yes, thanks. That was good I didn't fall asleep, yeah it was really good.” So kind of thinking I don't have to win them over at all and I don't have to win them over in the first five minutes but just carry on you know.
Leanne: Steady-steady.
Lynne: Yeah, steady-steady and time and again they kind of came on board throughout the workshop and participated in activities and contributed and yeah we were able to draw them out.
Leanne: Awe, that is a bit of a win. I know you’re not winning them over but you would have been pretty happy.
Lynne: Oh, I look at- Yes!
Leanne: Got a smile!
Lynne: Yeah and as soon as they're contributing you know and participating. Even tiny things like what's your name or how long have you worked here or gee you must have seen a lot of change in the organization you know as soon as someone contributes a story about what they do or what they've seen. I just think, “Yes, great you know, I've got them now contributing to something that this whole groups going to be working on. That's good, it’s safe for them to speak up here.”
Leanne: Yeah, fantastic. So let's just say I'm in a workshop of say 20 people and there is like that one or two to people that aren't engaging at all. Do you try to cook them in it anyway like pay special attention to them or you do you sort of focus on the 18 other people that are engaging? Well, does it depend on the context environment? These are one of the variables here.
Lynne: Yeah, it does. It does depend on that. But I like to look at people's behaviour and think of their behavioural styles not their characteristics or personality but what's the behaviour they're exhibiting at the moment. And if they're quiet and not actively participating then my thinking is “Well, maybe they're thinking. Maybe they're not disengaged.” and I use visuals all the time in my workshops. So you know, here’s a flip chart, you see my office at the moment what's always here but I'll always be using flip charts in my workshops and the effect that visuals have on people, on their eyes, their mind, they can't help but look and engagement naturally, automatically goes up. So yeah, engaging with people when it's all talk is very difficult, can be very difficult. But as soon as you've got visuals there. Bang! Engagement goes up. “I can't help but look at the stuff that you're capturing from around the room.”
Leanne: Yeah. I was just on the back of what you’ve been showing me is a flipchart. Saw your website and a light bulb and like you said “You just can't unsee that, you've seen it, it's in your head.” You've sort of thinking, “What’s that about?” I'm seeing some really beautiful handwriting which I also saw on your website and the way that you draw is its really simple but it's effective and I know what you're trying to convey. Have you always been interested in drawing or as again just a tool that you've brought into your facilitation toolkit because you think yeah visuals are so important?
Lynne: Yeah. I have no art training at all. This is not about art, I say, it’s smart not art. So it's how we’re capturing and reflecting back to people the stuff that they're saying. I don't like the idea of someone sitting in the corner you know typing into a laptop “Oh, you know, I'm the scribe. I'm capturing what's happening today.” I think we don't know what you're capturing and its useless going into a computer so let's make it visible and then people can see and because using the tools of a visual is facilitation. So if facilitation means to make ease, to make easier, visuals do that. They instantly help make engagement easier, communication easier, collaboration easier, impact easier. It makes it easier to get to outcomes by about 25%, recall is easier by about 33%. So if we're not using visuals and we're facilitators we're really pushing sinopia. We're making it harder for us and for the group.
Leanne: Yeah, really good point and then you've written a book about this called Visual Mojo. In that book do you actually explain how we can use visual cues as a facilitator? What’s involved in that book?
Lynne: Yeah. It's Visual Mojo, so that's around the confidence of using visuals because most of us think we're crap at drawing.
Leanne: Yup.
Lynne: So this is about how to capture your thinking, convey information and collaborate using visuals. So I go through how to draw simple shapes and use lines. How to draw people because I think the sooner you put people in some of the pictures and charts you know anytime we capture anything on a flip chart or a whiteboard. Don't just write words.
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: We have to work too hard to digest that. So some words and visuals will really help get the message across. So whether you're you know capturing, you're eliciting information from the group and you write some of that up there with an anchor image as I call it. Something that helps people attach that those words with an icon or whether you're explaining something you know you might be explaining, “Okay, now we're going to break into three groups.” and you know those long-winded instructions that facilitators sometimes have. And sure enough someone in the room will go, “What? What’ll we have to do?” So I find that if I sketch out you know groups of three and I'll draw three people, draw a clock fifteen minutes and then a speech bubble and I'll put the keywords what we're going to talk about in groups of three for 15 minutes then that flip chart is there and no one asks you “What are we doing?” They’ll just look at it and you explain it and point to it, break into groups of three, talk for 15 minutes on this topic and I'll remind you know when it's time to wrap up and that just works every time.
Leanne: Where has that information been all my life? Our colleague and I just ran a workshop this morning and it was yeah I was trying to make this very complicated instruction very simple so I was staging it and checking in every now and then. But if I had just drawn it. The time limit and this is where you go. I guess that is something I'm going to start implementing straightaway and I’ll iterate drawing skill if they can draw a circle and letters and numbers.
Lynne: Exactly, that's it. Even keywords if there are three steps to this activity and go, “Here's the first step on the first chart, and we’re doing this. The second steps on the next chart, the third steps on the next chart.”
Leanne: Yeah, fantastic.
Lynne: You can have all three charts pinned up at once. So those that need to see the big picture can see everything and you know compartmentalizes information so we've got information in chunks. All of this is making it easier, that's facilitation. How do we make this thing easier and breaking down something like complicated instructions for an activity is you know we need to be really good at that. We need to have great clarity when we're delivering information.
Leanne: Yeah, that’s right.
Lynne: Yeah. Don't just rely on words for that.
Leanne: No. Thank you. That's excellent! I just wanted to share a quote that you said. So you mentioned that “Every time you're working with more than one other person, it's time to put facilitation skills to work.” So why do you think is the case and I guess the flip side of that, do you think people in organizations recognize that because I think, I mean I'm going to give you my opinion here. I think people think that facilitation is a skill that somewhere else is that the trainer or facilitator needs to have it, that it's not a role of a leader?
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: What I'm saying in here is every meeting if you've got more than one person you're going to have to draw on these skills so can you explain that a bit further?
Lynne: Yeah. Well, this is coming from the book called Leader as Facilitator which is about how to inspire, engage and get work done. So this book I wrote in 2016 and this is exactly that point which is helping leaders realize that every time they get the team together or even just have a one-on-one or one-on-two, one-on-three conversation, they need to just switch into the role of facilitator because they've got to make that little meeting easier. We know how much meeting suck so bad, right? They're run badly and that's the main problem, they're run badly. We can talk about lots of other things about them but mainly meetings are run really poorly. So with some facilitation skill, a leader cannot become a full-time facilitator but just swing into that role and think “Okay, how do I need to make this environment safe for these people to speak?” which probably means they need to shut up more. You know, “What are the questions? What’s the topic? What are they actually bringing this group together for?” And every time there's more than one person, they've now got the opportunity to draw that information out of those people because I see it a lot you'll have one loudmouth in a small group meeting and two other people don't feel like speaking. Well, it's the leaders job to you know just quiet in the loudmouth down and help lift up and encourage the other to not shut the loudmouth down and not expect those quieter people like, “Now come on, lean in and speak up!” No, it's not their job. It’s the leader’s job to make the environment great and elicit that information. So yeah I'm seeing more and more workplaces wanting to do this because they realize leadership's changing and they have to create more collaborative, co-created environments.
Leanne: Yeah. I'm looking at leadership in the aspirational requirements of a leader and it's sometimes it seems like it is this unicorn. They've got to be just great people but also have some technical capability, be a great role model listen to people, coach them. It's like wow and especially in the world we're living in now which is just subject to so much change and I was on your website before and I loved there's a workshop that really caught my eye and it was called The Sensemaking Workshop. I'd love to talk to you about that. So you said that the Institute for the future predicts it since making it to be the number one skill we need for 2020 which is only a couple years away. What is the skill of sense-making? I'm sure our audience, it may be the first time I've heard that term.
Lynne: Yeah. It kind of sounds a bit my lab tease the word “wanky”?
Leanne: Of course, this is an Australian podcast.
Lynne: Okay. I’ll probably say that instead of the other swear words that I probably get in trouble for and you know in the States. But since making can sound like “Oh, it's a made-up word or don't you mean making sense?” So sensemaking is when you connect the dots with information and try and work out what the hell's going on and we're often trying to do that in teams and groups. We get people together particularly in meetings and workshops, we're trying to make sense of what's going on, make some decisions and some plans and put stuff into practice and I think challenges come when we bring people together and we just expect that they're going to start collaborating and working well. But if we do some sensemaking, we give them some skills about how to maybe map out their ideas or think or talk together and the facilitator can be a sense makeup. So you can very much use visual skills, you can be a sensemaker using visuals. So it's kind of creating a map you know, whenever we're traveling somewhere or we're looking for a coffee shop, we get our phone out, we're great cartographers, you know we're great users of maps and in sensemaking, maps really are the visual charts it is showing, “This is where we are.” “This is where we want to go to.” and this is “Let's talk about now how we're going to get there.” Because that's kind of the overriding model that most workplaces and meetings are following. “This is where we are.” “This is where we need to get to know how we're going to get there.” So sensemaking helps people connect the dots and see, “What's really going on here?” and then it helps us make better decisions.
Leanne: Yeah, cool. A lot of the time I guess in meetings because we are so time poor and there's a something that's thrust upon us and we need to solve it and nobody goes straight into solution mode.
Lynne: Oh, really?
Leanne: You never really step out and talk about the process of how we're going to solve it because we have no time it needs to be solved and you think but by going through that process, it's very easy to clear and clear to see you know “What are the risks?, What's going on here?”, “Do we agree with that?”, “Okay, this is what will inform our decision process then.”
Lynne: Yes. So now you're uncovering a better process which great facilitation is having a really good process underlying. The work that the team's going to do and you're going to help them you know get through that work easier than if you weren't there in the room or if they had someone else to believe.
Leanne: You made with yourself redundant.
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: So you love the variety of workshops that you do offer. I'd like to hear a bit about let's just say you get approached by a client and they want something that's not off-the-shelf not within your range but you know that you can deliver it. I’d like to know, what is your process of putting together a package or a course for someone? They'll give you their objectives. What’s then, what do you do next?
Lynne: So this is probably a little bit more like a training design or learning design which is one of my earlier roles was working in a sales team and we helped all of the business development team that were out there on the road selling. We designed and delivered all of their professional development so I was constantly having to create new programs. So this happened a lot in one of these consulting roles that I had. But what we do is kind of find out those similar questions, “Where's the team at now?”, “Where do we need to get them to?” So what's that gap of performance and until we can identify that gap I think it's all just waffle. You know, if we start saying, “Oh let's run an activity about this and let's get them to read Simon Sinek’s “Start with Why”. Let's get them to watch that TED talk where there's a single guy dancing at the festival.”
Leanne: Oh, the second follower. Yeah, I've seen that everywhere.
Lynne: So I think there's a lot of biggest kind of I'd say cliched tools that we might throw into a training program thinking, “That'll do. That'll make them learn.” But I'd come back and go so, “Where's this team or group at now?, “What are the main things they're doing really well and what's the stuff we need them to either do better?” or “Where's the new capability?, “What's the new thing that we need them to do?” And often I see teams or groups trying to achieve and consultants learning and development consultants trying to fit too much into one day and so we've got “Okay, today here's 15, you know learning at home.”
Leanne: I know.
Lynne: It's crazy. It's not going to happen. So if you can blow that down and go, “Let's just focus on one or two, maximum three.” You know “What are the absolute must-haves?” and then maybe some of those other ones. If you're following that 70-20-10 model of learning on the job and learning through coaching and then for more face-to-face learning then use that as some of the on the job or the coaching like you've pushed some of those other modules or learning outcomes or topics off to other ways that people are going to learn. Not in that 10% when you're doing face to face. So that's how I do, I find out what this gap is that we're closing and try and narrow and get this gap as specific and as miserable as possible rather than you know, “Come and teach us conflict resolution.”
Leanne: We won’t training on communication.
Lynne: So you want to go, “What's going on in communication?”, “Where are the problems?”, “What are the issues?”, “Are these two people aren't talking well to each other?” Okay, well that's not to be covered in the workshop. you know we want something that's going to be and value to the whole group and not just be of value to them but it’s delivered in a way that they actually we've got some chance at making some sort of shift. We're not going to totally change them but some but some chance and that's the visual mojo or sensemaking workshop. I've refined that over a number of years and I just keep the elements that work and that people like and I keep getting rid of the stuff that doesn't work and that people don't like. So every time I run that visual session, I know I'm closing a gap around confidence in people's ability to think and communicate visually.
Leanne: Yeah fantastic. You do, you iterate it over and over again.
Lynne: Yeah. Keep that gap as narrow as possible. Here’s the thing that these sessions going to address. Not all of these 15 things.
Leanne: Yes, it's too confusing, too ambitious. Yes.
Lynne: So if you fluff up for failure like failure sexy. But not that sort of failure.
Leanne: No. I've never had fairly been described as sexy before.
Lynne: Oh, it’s everywhere now. That’s the right thing to do.
Leanne: Oh, I must have been in the cave. Okay. So when you are designing these programs are there any particular ice-breakers or energisers that lean on that you know yet this works every time?
Lynne: Oh, well I could be you know speaking an unpopular opinion here but I don't use icebreakers. So I don't have a go-to icebreaker. I think my view is they’re a little bit dated and a little cliched and lots of people have seen and coached and work with use quite dated and tacky activities that have elements.
Leanne: The “Two lies and one truth”.
Lynne: Oh, please. I am about to just go off my mind about this. Why would you get people together and you're trying to work with them for the day. Why would you encourage them to lie to each other and you’re trying to let things passed.
Leanne: I don’t know. I’ve sat through 15 workshops so that's been…
Lynne: It must be stopped immediately that activity is not good unless you're training for ACO and you're trying to work out, you're trying to catch liars, right? That's a great activity for them. But I think generally in the business world, get rid of stupid activities and anything that involves a blindfold. No! Just don't put blindfolds on people, stupid! We're trying to build trust.
Leanne: I think hopefully. I think that was stamped out in the 90’s because I don’t remember in my adult years. How safe we were in legislation and...
Lynne: Oh no. People still suggest it.
Leanne: Yeah and with big markers trying to people to try out to trust exercise.
Lynne: No. It's not. That is not how you build trust.
Leanne: Setting people up to trust you. Yes.
Lynne: I'm always saying you know “For what purpose, for this activity. Why am I running this?” If I'm trying to break the ice then there are ways to break the ice. The best way to get people to break the ice is to get them start working on something. Like they're probably there for work so let's get them to start working on something. Why make them play some silly game?
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: What issue that people have about actually starting some of the work? There are some pieces of work that you could begin working on. The best way to get people working together is to get them to start working together.
Leanne: It sounds so simple.
Lynne: It does, though I think Ben's icebreakers and games are kind of hang overs from the 50’s 60’s and 70’s and they were probably the ways that our teachers were taught and then that's carried on we think, “Oh, that's what you do.” or the training and assessment certificate says you must conduct an icebreaker. But I would say “Well, who decided that?” you know, so there's some of my views on icebreakers. I think it can cause more damage to people by making them feel embarrassed, socially awkward and I think you've got to keep a very safe environment and very low risk early on in a workshop yeah and icebreakers to me most of them are too they're too risky and I think what's the most socially awkward, socially anxious, introverted person going to think about this?
Leanne: Yeah. Completely shut off. Yeah.
Lynne: It's not good. So yeah, a lot of experiencing engagement challenges in teams and at workshops and maybe it could be because we've done some things that are negatively impacting how we're building engagement and building trust.
Leanne: Yeah. I spoke to a guy called Sean D'Souza on the podcast last week and he pretty much said: “No one cares about your bullet points, nobody cares about your content until they feel safe.”
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: I was like, “That is such a good point.”
Lynne: Yeah, it's so true. It's like…
Leanne: Yeah, because they're seeing where they are in the workshop, what's comfortable, what's going to happen to them. So, it's all about them. They're not actually looking and seeing what the information is because they don't feel that they can trust the environment yet.
Lynne: Yes, exactly. And some by the end of the day are still going, “No. I still can't trust the environment.” and that's why they've set their arms crossed you know disengaged-looking face. However, they might still be thinking. We think you know we can't lie consumption that someone's disengaged simply on how they look.
Leanne: Yes. I love that mindset. So let's just say when you've gone in, you've identified the gaps, you've written the most amazing content, everyone's engaged, thinking about it taking action. They walk out. How then can you in some way, how can you embed the learning from that day's workshop or what strategies do you have so that when they leave that day feeling inspired and motivated, fantastic that they do something. Well, they change some behaviour following that. So, in three months’ time, I mean this such a tough thing to do and I'm just curious what are your thoughts around that?
Lynne: Yes so three months for me is a long time.
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: But how do I get a behaviour change in a lot shorter time? So I'm looking for behaviour change on the day in the workshop. So I'm wanting to see people particularly with my visual thinking, visual mojo, and visual sensemaking workshop. I'm checking and testing throughout the day to see are these people shifting like “Are they getting a new behaviour?” Not waiting till the end and then trying to do some follow-up webinar two weeks later to check in with learning.
I'm looking for little points throughout the day like probably thirty of them and I'm checking have they got that did they get that and then the beautiful task of reincorporation. So then I'll be running some activities later on in the day, “Are they reincorporating stuff we covered in the morning?” So now they're starting to put this stuff to practice and is there thinking shifting, is their behaviour in their team or their group whatever the topic is, is that starting to change? Now they're trying it out, you know they're trying it on. I think we expect a lot that you know “Watch on my PowerPoint slides and now go behave differently.” and it just isn't like that. So what opportunities are you giving people throughout the day to try some new behaviours on.
Leanne: Yeah fantastic. That's so embedding it in the terms of the content and the way that you structured the course of learning.
Lynne: Absolutely, yes.
Leanne: Awe, that's really good. Yep love that.
Lynne: So if you come back to going, well the gap now is a very narrow gap that we've defined now. I can make some really good stuff happen to close that narrow gap rather than having this broad topic of communication. Maybe you know the much narrower gap, I'm covering is delivering 90 second explanations in meetings maybe that's the narrow gap and now I can deliver skill around that and we can practice it and they can by the end of the day they will have new behaviours and they will not want to let those behaviours go because I'll have tried them on they'll go “Yeah, actually that feels pretty good. I've now seen it in other people in the room. I'm seeing how effective it is.” And one of my favourite tasks is just to give people some homework just within 72 hours. So I give them a task that they have to come back to me with just individually. So safe, just come back to me, doesn't support cast to the whole team or group, you just straight back to me. Here’s a demonstration of one of their skills or behaviours connected with the workshop.
Leanne: Oh cool. Yeah.
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: Yeah that sounds really fair, 72 hours, a non-confrontational, yeah.
Lynne: Yeah and I found the people who do that go on and do really good stuff with the program and the people who are still don't quite have the confidence. I've got an online program then that I send people in enrolment to and I find that the people who haven't sent me their homework are the ones that go straight in to the online program because they want to learn a bit more or they want to feel it out a bit more and they'll take a little bit longer and then their homework will come through.
Leanne: Awe, that's good at least they’re still completing the homework.
Lynne: Yeah.
Leanne: That’s fantastic.
Lynne: Yeah and majority of people do, “Because I want some feedback.” or “How am I going?” or you know maybe they feel like “Oh, this is looking pretty crappy.” and I’d go, “No, it looks really good.” you know. So you would come back to this mojo, all this confidence not only does the facilitator need it but in a training situation you kind of have to confirm or affirm that when people have got that competency like let them know, you know let them know that they're going well or I might say give them that social proof or I'll go “Look, I've seen you know three and a half thousand people do this program and I can tell you, you're doing really well.” and they'll go, “Oh, okay so compared to others, I'm doing okay.” “Oh, yeah. Yeah you've got this.”
Leanne: Oh that's so, yeah great strategy.
Lynne: With some feedback.
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: You know direct feedback to them. “I can see you're doing well with this.” So some of that growth mindset stuff. “I can see you've worked really hard on this.”
Leanne: Yeah.
Lynne: Yeah, it’s like acknowledgement.
Leanne: Yeah. Look we're getting so many practical tips from you Lynne. What is one piece of a practical advice that you could offer to a first-time facilitator or to yourself say you know 15, 20 years ago whenever you started that one-day strategy session. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice what would that be?
Lynne: As a facilitator I'd say, don't go in thinking that you know the answer and some of the best ways to build engagement in a team or group is to push what we say, “Push the work into the room or push the questions out into the groups.” So rather than you’re playing consultant or subject matter expert or teacher as in “I have the answers to this. I know, I'm going to share.” That that you put the challenge or the questions out to the group and that's the work that they're going to start doing. You know have I said don't play silly icebreakers maybe some of the icebreaking years get them to answer some of the initial questions about this topic: What are their thoughts? What do they know about it? And this get them participating, contributing and you've been more of the facilitator not the person who has all the answers.
Leanne: That's fantastic advice and on that Lynne, I like to thank you so much for all of your time, your insight. I don't know if you've noticed but I've been like scribbling, you can’t read my writing, it's not as good as yours.
Lynne: Did you use any shapes or icon?
Leanne: I did use some circles and I've used some arrows that would sort of link things together
Lynne: Oh, good.
Leanne: Yeah. So some kind of taking some baby steps on what you recommended in terms of your visual mojo. I'm not a mojo level yet.
Lynne: Yeah, but with some, the podcast if you want to put a link there for people to shoot me an email and if they just say, “Look, I heard about, I heard you on this podcast.” Oh, I'll send back. I've got like a PDF with some icons on it that people can follow and draw and practice. So I couldn't send that right on back to them for now you know just a little gift or something.
Leanne: Oh, well gift for the audience. That's the first time we've had a gift from what about. Actually, now sorry, we had a template sent through back in Episode Eight. So Lynne, your website is a lynnecazaly.com and we’ll write that on the show notes as well and you've also got a huge following on Twitter so we'll put your Twitter account on there if anyone starts using questions on that.
Lynne: Thank you. Yes.
Leanne: Thank you so much for your time and all your insight. The stuff that you're rattling off is just it's so yeah, I mean some of the stuff I've kind of heard before but majority of things are just simple tweaks in terms of the way that you can explain an instruction using symbols that's going to improve my game like by 10% straightaway. So I really appreciate that.
Lynne: Yes. You’ll save time. The message will land and they'll go “Wow, she is a smooth facilitator.”
Leanne: Yeah. I love that. Thanks again, Lynne. I'm sure you'll get a bit of a feedback from this one.
Lynne: All right. Thanks. Great to speak to you.
Leanne: Thank you.
Episode 22: What clients really want from a workshop (and no, it’s not information) with Sean D’Souza
In today’s episode, I talk to Sean D’Souza. Sean is a cartoonist, author, online marketing strategist, a pretty good cook (judging from his social media photos) and an energetic facilitator who applies his skills in creating a different kind of workshop. He reads on average 100 books a year. Teaching runs in his blood, as his father, mother and grandmother were teachers too. He's that good, I flew to Singapore to attend one of his three-day workshops.
In today’s episode, I talk to Sean D’Souza. Sean is a cartoonist, author, online marketing strategist, a pretty good cook (judging from his social media photos) and an energetic facilitator who applies his skills in creating a different kind of workshop. He reads on average 100 books a year. Teaching runs in his blood, as his father, mother and grandmother were teachers too. He's that good, I flew to Singapore to attend one of his three-day workshops.
In this episode, we talk about the motivation of the people coming to your workshops… are they really there for the information, or are they there for another reason? We explore workshop design and giving your participants time to reflect on content. We also discuss creating a safe workshop environment - not only for the people in the room, but for you as well…because, as the facilitator - it’s important that you feel safe, too.
In this episode you’ll learn:
Sean’s ratio for instructing vs group discussions and activities
The power of frequent breaks
Why it’s important to create a safe space for your participants
Why he shares his learning materials prior to a workshop
What clients really want out of a workshop (and it’s not information)
A winning formula that features energy, confidence and skill
The importance of feedbacks and testimonials in a workshop.
Tips for facilitators starting their journey in facilitating and leading workshops in their own context.
About our guest
Sean D’ Souza is a cartoonist and an online marketing strategist who runs a zany online marketing site named PsychoTactics. He is also the author of “The Brain Audit” which is about how customers make decisions.
Originally working as a freelance cartoonist, Sean somehow found himself indulging his talent for marketing and understanding consumer psychology by helping out others with their marketing efforts. It wasn’t long before he started writing about his own experiences with marketing and slowly but surely, he began to gather an audience hungry to learn more.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sean’s online home Psychotactics
Sean's book, The Brain Audit
We Are Podcast conference
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Click here to tweet your thanks to Sean. https://twitter.com/seandsouza?lang=en
Quotes of the show:
“What you have to really work on when you're teaching people is you have to get their confidence up, because when you get their confidence up, they use less energy.”
“You have to understand what causes people to be motivated in the first place and it's not your stupid bullet points; it’s not your content.”
What clients really want in a workshop and that is they want to leave the room and you say, “That's not possible!” Well, do this the next time you're having a workshop tell them, “Look, all of you are here for the information, right? And they'll all say “Yes!” and you go “Okay, so we're going to do this workshop until 9:00 p.m. tonight.” and then watch their faces.
“You have to be comfortable that you're going to goof up 50 to 60 percent of your early days before you start getting comfortable But breaking it up is always good because once you're confident, then you don't have to overcompensate. You don't have to be, ‘“I’m the boss here and you're just minions.’”
Episode transcript
View the First Time Facilitator episode transcript with Sean D’ Souza.
Episode transcript (Episode 18)
This is the show transcript for Episode 18 of the First Time Facilitator podcast.
Leanne: Hi everyone and THANK YOU for choosing to listen to Episode 18 of the First Time Facilitator podcast.
It’s really hard to believe that for the last 18 weeks, I’ve delivered an episode to you every Monday at 4 o’clock in the afternoon, Brisbane time.
The last time I was dedicated to anything like this was probably back in 2015 when I ran the Gold Coast Marathon. I really enjoyed having that daily discipline of waking up, lacing up the shoes and heading out the door. I liked it as I’m not typically a very disciplined type of person.
Through this, I discovered a few things that help me honour my commitments. It’s really about using the motivation to then build a habit. It’s also about having a really important vision of your end goal - so in the case of a marathon, if I didn’t get out of bed and run, then I wouldn’t make it to the 42km Finish Line. Most important is that
I also had a coach who I’d email every week with my times, and he’d respond with feedback and set my plan for the week.
Accountability for me, is key. And I guess for this podcast, I feel accountable to all of you who are listening in, sharing this podcast with colleagues and friends, tweeting me and emailing… thank you so much for helping me stay consistent and honour this weekly commitment.
Today’s episode is my second solo one and again I’m responding in to a listener question. I’ll do these listener Q&A’s from time to time, to give you some practical insight into how I facilitate and approach situations.
If you have a question you’d like to send through, either tweet it to me @leannehughes or send me an email – hello@firsttimefacilitator.com.
I’d like to thank my friend Joanne Alilovic from 3D HR Legal in Western Australia for her question. Jo and I met at a conference called ‘We Are Podcast’ in Brisbane last November.
Neither of us had a podcast back then, and we both launched our podcasts in March this year. Jo’s podcast is called The Juggle and is all about how you can balance your career and work commitments. For anyone out there who thinks their constantly juggling their priorities, I recommend listening in to her show. I’ll link to it in the show notes for this episode at firsttimefacilitator.com/episode17.
Anyway, like me, Jo likes to do things a little bit differently. She’s a lawyer. In her business she takes her legal knowledge, combines that with her HR skills to help create tailored polices and procedures for individual businesses.
Jo wrote in with the following question:
‘I have a client who wants to throw out their existing human resources manual and start fresh.
We are thinking of creating documents such as a Code of Conduct, a performance management policy, complaints procedure etc.
In order to create something that is truly reflective of the workplace and the people who work in it, we decided it would be good to get the staff involved.
So we have scheduled a 2 hour facilitation session to discuss the types of policies and procedures they need, and the content for them.
Do you have any suggestions on how to run this session?
Okay first thing first. I’m impressed that the company is getting their employees involved in the process. I know it seems obvious but sometimes organisations don’t recognise this and take the critical step of engaging with their people.
So, a big high five to your client, and a big high five to you too, Jo.
I do have some suggestions I can share with you. Let’s start with preparation.
Way back in Episode 7, my guest Sue Johnstone and I spoke about preparation and how it’s critical. One of the things she drives the most is being very clear on your workshop outcomes.
As part of your prep work, I would suggest working with your client to agree on what those outcomes are. They could include things like, ‘‘Agreeing on the 5 most urgent and important HR policies to deliver’, or ‘Creating sub-groups to tackle each policy’ or ‘Generating enthusiasm for agreed actions and next steps’.
Notice that each of these outcome starts with a verb. An action word. This gives you clarity on what the outcome looks like. Avoid starting the outcome with a word like ‘Understanding’. That’s something I learnt in my first job out of university, working as an Instructional Designer.
Now for the purposes of this podcast. I’m going to assume that the outcomes I just listed are the outcomes the client wants too (I really have no idea, but to keep this going, let’s lock those ones in).
Oh and let’s pause this for a second. If you’re listening in and also have tips for Jo on your approach, please sing out and get in touch!
Let’s talk about your participants. I I like to find out as much as I can about the people in the room. Who are they? Do they all get along? What’s their motivation for being involved (or have they been nominated)? Has anyone developed policies before? Etc.
I believe there are facilitators out there who would prefer not to know this information and arrive without pre-conceived bias, but I guess at this stage of my career in facilitation, I like to know as much as I can. If I can anticipate that there will be tension with some people in the room, that’s helpful.
When considering your participants, try to put yourself in their shoes. They can barely keep up with the hundreds of emails in their inbox and now, on top of all of their other regular meetings, they’ve been asked to attend this two hour policy session.
Jo you’re going to be working with people that are busy, some may not even know why they’re in the room and you need to extract some information from their heads PLUS get them excited about this project… oh and then leave them with action items afterwards. I mean, this isn’t Mission Impossible… but it’s not far from it!
You’ve been given two hours to work with, which isn’t a lot of time. Your outcome is to find out what HR policies and procedures they require, and what information they want in those policies, and you also want to leave with enthusiasm and action items too.
So, prior to the workshop I would create a quick definitions sheet of key HR policies and procedures that are common in most organistions. The definitions sheet would have things like:
‘A performance management policy is dot dot dot…companies use it to…dot dot dot.
Now the reason I’m suggesting this is that it’s easier for you to look at a comprehensive list of policies and procedures and eliminate the ones you don’t need; rather than looking at a blank page and starting from scratch. You’ve also set the definitions so you won’t be getting arguments over policy definitions.
Ideally, you could email this information through to the participants prior to your workshop.
Now, let’s talk about delivery
I suggest you share the following information with your group upfront. Stealing a phrase from my favourite thought leader, Simon Sinek, start with why.
Share the context: And share it by stating problem and solutions. For example,
Yes it is painful working on these policies from scratch in the short-term but in future it will save more time because you won’t have managers tapping on your door every day, asking how what the process is to onboard a new employee.
Share WHY you’ve been asked to facilitate this workshop. Jo, you can rely on your credibility and experience here… you’re in the business of overhauling HR policies…you are the guru.
Share the outcomes you want to drive in the two hour workshop and why it’s critical.
- not only in that two hour session; Check in - do they agree?
I suggest you also include engagement activities early in the piece. This helps setup expectations that you’re not there to tell them what to do…
My guess is that the people in the room know each other already, so you won’t need to do any formal type of introductions.
If I was going to run some type of opener, I’d suggest keeping it simple, to get them in small groups of about 3 or 4 people and ask them to discuss in their groups a simple question like ‘Why do we have policies?’ or for more interesting answers (and laughs), you can reverse that question and ask ‘What would a company look like without policies?’
Debrief as a group. Instead of asking one group to share all their ideas, ask for one idea per group and continue to rotate around the group.
That way, when the last group is called onto speak, they have something to contribute and won’t just say ‘Oh yeah we agree with what the other groups have said’.
Okay, so now we’ve established why policies and procedures are important.
On an aside, given your time-frame, I think a Parking Lot is a good idea. Simply write Parking Lot on a piece of flip-chart paper and pop it to the side of the room. Explain that if they start talking about a subject that is off topic, or they can’t solve quickly that we park that conversation and explore it later on (if time) or outside of the workshop.
Now, remember that policy definition sheet I asked Jo to prepare? If it was given as pre-work, great, if not, then as part of the workshop I’d hand this out and ask them to individually review the policies listed.
I would then, ask them individually to circle the 5-6 (you can change the numbers, this is an example) Policy titles they believe are ‘non-negotiable’.
Following this, I’d ask them to place draw an asterisk against two policies that would be nice to have.
Meanwhile, you’ve written the name of each policy on individual post-it notes and put them up on the wall.
Ask them to walk up and vote on the policies they believe are most important. You can use stickers and allocate 7 per person, these stickers are their voting cards.
By doing this, you’ll notice trends. Either some policies receive the most votes and are clear majorities; or they could be scattered across various policies. Whatever the outcome of the voting, you have some good discussion points here.
Because we’re talking about priorities, you could even draw something like Stephen Covey’s priority quadrant matrix (important vs urgent) and then as a group, see if you can categorise each policy within the matrix - what’s most important and most urgent; what’s important but not urgent, etc.
This is when you enter the mode of facilitator and use your arsenal of open-ended questions to encourage discussion within the group.
You’ll notice those who aren’t contributing and entice them into the conversation. If there is someone who is contributing an awful lot and may be overbearing, you can say things like, ‘‘Hey John, I appreciate your input but I’d like to hear from some others in the room’.
Once you’ve categorised each policy, the next step would then be allocating 3-4 people to each policy or the policies with the most ‘votes’.
In these small groups, you can ask them to brainstorm:
What topics do we need to cover under the policy?
Does this policy link in with another policy?
Do we have all the information we have right now to develop the policy? Yes/No (If no, what other information do we need to find out?
Who else do we need to consult with?
I would encourage this sub-group to chat for about 30mins, and then each group to share their findings as a group; for feedback.
I would then reserve the last 20-30mins for action planning.
Again, come in with a project template which will create consistency across the groups. In this template, ask them to allocate roles within the team, action items and time-frames.
To wrap up, thank the group, emphasise the importance of the feedback, what you learnt, and how you will communicate with the team to ensure those policies are ready.
Okay that’s a really quick snippet but some ideas and activities to get you started, Jo.
What I also want to mention is that I love using design thinking to brainstorm and for innovation. I though about bringing in some design thinking concepts here, like reversing assumptions and question-storming, however I believe that’s more important in the next step - the step where the group then really starts questioning what each policy should have, and what it shouldn’t have. If you’ve never heard of these design thinking concepts, I’ll explain them in a future episode - they’re gold.
Episode 12: The two hats: Switching your mode between facilitating and presenting with Paul Hellman
On Episode 12 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, I interview Paul Hellman from Express Potential about his secrets for communication in a distracted world.Paul believes presenters only have 8 seconds to grab their audience’s attention.
On Episode 12 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, I interview Paul Hellman from Express Potential about his secrets for communication in a distracted world.Paul believes presenters only have 8 seconds to grab their audience’s attention.
In this show you’ll learn
How you can break through to ensure your message is heard (even in a distracted world)
How he likens facilitation to conducting a job interview
The great advice he received when he started leading workshops about wearing two hats (and why it's dangerous if you mix them up)
Why you need to use stories and analogies in your workshops to add more colour (even if you're just presenting facts)
How to create a stronger, more confident presence (even though most of us think that presence is a mythical beast)
How he has personally developed his communication skills (and how you can do it too
Why there is a performance element in every interaction, including email and why warm-ups help to create a positive mood.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider using your Twitter handle so I can thank you personally.
About our guest
Paul Hellman consults and speaks internationally. He has advised thousands of executives and professionals during his career. Companies hire Paul to get faster results from presentations, meetings, emails. His latest book is You've got 8 Seconds: Communication Secrets for a Distracted World. His columns have appeared in leading newspapers like the New York Times and Wall Street Journal.
Resources
First Time Facilitator Podcast transcript with Cherelle Witney (Episode 9)
Leanne: Our guest today believes that being curious to learn keeps us energized and connected throughout our work and our life. She loves ideas, innovative thinking and what-if questions, and is passionate about lifting people's personal and professional capability to lead and manage.
She runs a company called LIFT Performance Solutions out of Perth. Her aim, as a facilitator, is to inspire her participants with real experiences that make learning practical and fun. Welcome to the show, Cherelle Witney.
Cherelle Witney: Thank you, Leanne, for having me. This is fun already.
Leanne: Cherelle, our listeners may not know, but we met when I was living in Broome working for TAFE. We would fly you up every so often to help us out with our leaders. I've only really known you as a facilitator. Can you tell us a bit about your career journey and how you wound up with the position that you're in now?
Cherelle: Actually, where we met in Broome was one of the best jobs, because it was paradise. It's always nice to come to a gorgeous venue, with gorgeous down-to-earth people like you. I loved that job, but really, that was the culmination of probably about 20 years of training and facilitating. I started my journey in my early 20s as a paralegal in a law firm.
I had no idea that I was going to become a trainer or a facilitator. Back then, I was looking for a job where I could earn some money and use my skills.
I was very lucky and I have continued to be lucky along my journey to have some great mentors. The guy who ran the law firm in Perth was very big on training and development of his staff. I quickly became, in a fast-growing law firm, the trainer for about 130 staff and also managing those staff. I cut my teeth there in training and development, and I learnt a lot about team building.
I had a very supportive boss who was keen to expose me to a lot of new tools at a young age. He was also a good mentor as well. He very much believed in meditating at the start and the end of each day to keep your mind fresh and keep your mindfulness present in your work, kind of unusual for a lawyer. [laughs] He was a great role model for me. I've taken that through to my facilitation tools and skills throughout my career, being present and being ready and up with your energy to work the room and the group.
After I worked in law for seven years, I started my first business which was called Traveling World it was an art selling business so completely different to law, but that was my first step into an entrepreneurial kind of space. Then, I worked in tourism for a few years in a sector of support area. That CEO that I worked closely with was very good at creating the bigger picture and the energy around an event.
I learnt quite good skills from her about knowing who’s in the room as a facilitator and knowing how to build the atmosphere to be safe and fun. She liked fun and I liked fun, so that worked very well for us. We ran some of the best events in Perth for tourism in that time. After I did that, I started my business as a consultant, and I started off doing database management of all things which was just bizarre now I look back, but it had an element of connecting people.
Back then, there was no such thing called a CRM or Customer Relationship Management, but that's what I was doing is working on the data to make it sense for the customer. I think that's one of my skill sets as a facilitator, is bringing the agenda, whatever the organization needs and the people together so that they feel connected with it. That began my consulting journey. I also started the first internet cafe for people over 55, back in 2000. I had a vision about old people needing to have some space where they could just train and learn in a positive comfortable, safe space. Back then, all the internet cafes were full of young kids, old people were feeling a bit isolated.
We started that business in Perth and again I used my training skills and facilitation skills to bring a very scary medium, being the internet, to people that were scared of it, older people over 55 to 60, 65, and bring the two together so that they could be more than they had thought possible. I had some great memories. That business didn't make any money because it was a bit too early on the market, but I have some great memories of people being 70 and being able to see their grandchild in London for the first time or email a photo and understand how they could cross the world in a few seconds.
Then, my most recent part of my career has been seven years in the Department of Health, and then what is now about nine years in my consultancy with LIFT. That last chunk of time-- You can work that I’m fairly old by now. [laughs] That last chunk of time has really allowed me to develop my leadership and team development practices. Now, I have culminated that in my keynote talks around the courage to create whatever you want to create in your life, in your work, in your home or your sporting career, whatever it might be.
All of those things, I guess it’s a long answer, Leanne, but all of those things along my journey when I look back have each taught me something different and have allowed me to be a facilitator now that has a good wealth of diverse experience in different industries first hand, and also has the ability to understand other industries and other people that might be in my groups to some degree to perfection.
Leanne: You're not kidding about diverse industries and experience, that's absolutely huge. The common thread in what you're talking about is you always bring out this concept of creating a safe environment, something that you're very passionate about. How do you create a safe environment in your workshops?
Cherelle: That's a great question. I think the best way to create a safe environment is be yourself. Don't go in as a facilitator trying to be something that you either think the group wants or that you think a facilitator should be. It's so important to have authenticity because you've got less than three minutes to build that trusting space with your group, especially, if you haven't met them before.
I always say to people, "Be yourself", and obviously, be professional, think about how you dress, how you move, what your body language is conveying and to create a trusting space where what you say actually is relevant to them and you're not telling them, you're asking them the whole time. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from my mentor was, "The wisdom is in the room."
If you go in with that mindset that you are the facilitator, but you're not the teller of all the information, you don't know the industry, you don't know their challenges, you're there to help them explore all of that, and find an answer, that will come out in the first three minutes. If that's your mindset, that'll come out in the way you talk and the way you move, that you're genuinely there for them not for you. You've got to put your ego in a box, leave it at the door because you're there to help the group not to show them how much knowledge you have.
Leanne: Lovely. That's the first time I've ever heard the concept of the first three minutes. How did you find out about that? What is it about three minutes?
Cherelle: I think that's just my own thought. From experience, when you're meeting people one-to-one, you got 30 seconds before they make a judgment of you and I think there's some research to back that up.
In the room, you've got that first three minutes where you're saying, “Welcome to the day, this is what the day is about”, people are sitting there either thinking, “I wish I wasn't here or what is this girl? Does she actually know her stuff?” all of these kind of chatter in their head. In that three minutes, if you can talk to them maybe for me, I had a little bit of humor because that's my nature if that's authentic for you, do that.
If it's a very serious meeting, then I get right down to why we're here and what are we going to achieve by the end of the day. That helps release a bit of pressure and people go, “Okay right, it's not just going to all be talk, we're actually going to get to an outcome.”
That three minutes is your chance to build a quick bond that they believe in you. You still got to build on that over the rest of the day.
Leanne: You spoke about for you, it's about being authentic, and your authentic self is quite humorous and you're fun. In your observation, what are other critical skills for a facilitator?
Cherelle: There's a couple of ways you can look at this. The IAF, International Association of Facilitators, have core competencies. There are six of them. You can Google 'IAF core competencies' and it will come up. They’re in a lot more detail. People that like the detail and maybe want to work towards a checklist, that would be good for them have a look at. For me, I've got 12 things that I always make sure I'm doing. Absolutely number one is be prepared. You can not go in the room not prepared. You need to know the industry, you need to have looked at their website.
You need to know who's in the room which is another part of that. You don't need to know a lot about the people but you need to know what level they are at, are they managers, leaders frontline, that kind of thing. You need to build that inclusive trusting safe environment in that first three minutes. You have to have a plan of how you do that and know the content of the day. If it's serious content around heavy strategic planning or downsizing or upsizing whatever it is, then in that three minutes talk about that. Name that elephant in the room if there is such a thing.
If it's more of a fun day then encourage them and let them know they're going to have fun. Set some ground rules. You’ve absolutely got to do that because not everyone's coming for the same reason. How we're going to listen? What are our values? What are we going to stick to? Do that by asking them what the ground rules need to be. I see some facilitators telling the group what the ground rules are going to be, that's not going to stick.
I guess a couple of the other things out of the 12 I've got are, you need to manage your time. You absolutely need to know the time schedule of how this day is going to run. You can't get to an hour and before the end time and you've still got two hours of material to do. For me, that is my Achilles' heel because I'm more creative than time-bound, so I've got to be careful about that. For other facilitators, it's been easier.
You have to go in optimistic, adaptive, flexible. You’ve got your whole session plan, you've prepped the hell out of it but things change and you've got to be able to let that go and go, "Okay, this is where the group needs to or wants to go." To do that, you've got to have a Mary Poppins bag full of stuff.
Leanne: [laughs] What's in your Mary Poppins bag?
Cherelle: My partner is fascinated when I pack to go and facilitate because he says, "You've been doing this for so many years and you still take too much stuff every time. You take stuff you don't use." I say, "Yes, because you don't know what's going to happen in the road." I always take extra icebreakers in addition to the ones I've planned because I often get in the room and go, "You know what? This room’s a bit more high energy than I anticipated." Or, "This one's a bit lower energy than I thought or a bit more resistant than I expected." I might use a different icebreaker.
I always take more paper, more pens, more blue tack, more everything that you think you're going to need because the walls that you thought you could put paper up on, you can and you've got to be able to adapt if you want people up and moving around. I always take some other energizers. I have a favourite go-to which is a beach ball and it has questions on permanent marker on the beach ball. You throw the beach ball around the room and people catch it and wherever their hands land it's a question and they read the question and they give the answer. It’s a bit of fun and energy. There are a few things that are in my Mary Poppins bag.
Leanne: That is so cool. I know you're a bit of inventor. Are you going to paint in your beach ball?
Cherelle: [laughs] Yes, I actually have a secret desire to make a range of facilitator products because-- Not so secret now, I'm saying it on the podcast.
[laughter]
Cherelle: There is a lack of Mary Poppins bags, I guess. When you're starting out, it takes a long time to gather these tools. I've gathered them just from my own learning I guess, but also watching other facilitators and I'm always fascinated, "What have they got in there?" "What’s their go-to tool?" For first-time facilitators, ask away. When you're in a workshop, ask what they've got in their kit and that's a good way to learn.
Leanne: Yes, I was actually thinking of a little segment on the show, a bit of an aside was to ask facilitators what they do pack in their training toolkit and then just linking that as part of a packing list on the website or something. I know it's all right, you're so true and even like the pens that facilitators use. I've seen those Mr. Sketch, the free pens that people-- I don't know, they seem to last forever. They smell good. They’re colorful. I've seen that a lot around Brisbane.
Cherelle: Yes, you see people like Adam Fraser on his YouTube, he’s got those giant, giant outline pens that are just huge. When he just wants to write one word it's this big fat text and it looks fabulous. I've seen them in office work.
Leanne: We'll link to those in the show notes. It's fun, creating a safe environment, you can do all these sort of things and prepare really well and then sometime in the course of your workshop, someone can say something that can derail or you have a bit of an impact which isn't so positive. How do you bring it back to that safe environment and creating a positive atmosphere when something like that happens?
Cherelle: Yes, I think that is the number one nightmare of all facilitators. [laughs] I've watched some more experienced facilitators than me that have 40 years experience under their belts struggle with that. I would just say to first-time facilitators, "It's not easy for anyone to deal with when you've got one person in the group that is resisting or is been quite negative." I've also had the ones that like to clown around and so they never do the instructions that you are asking them to do and then they go around disrupting everybody else. Or the person that constantly is on their mobile phone even though the ground rules have been set that we'll put our phones in our bag.
You do get these kinds of behaviors. You also get the behaviors of people that have been sent to the workshop and that's always challenging. They don't want to be there from the get-go. A couple of things that I do is absolutely make sure you've got the ground rules in place first, at the beginning of the day. Then, if you got those, you will need those because say the ground rule says something like, "We listen without interrupting", and you've got someone that's always interrupting, then you need to say, "Look, I'm noticing that we aren't sticking to the ground rule we'd set earlier today about listening without interrupting. We need to come back to that and be mindful of that and make sure that we are doing that to get the best out of the day."
When it happens again, I would say, "Hey Jake, when you're interrupting Sally like that, we're not sticking to the ground rules. You need to give it--" Actually, have to name it. You don't want to as a facilitator, especially in a larger group setting, you don't want to have to say, "Hey Jake, that's not what's in line with the--" If you've done all the other-- You've done the grounds rules, you’re reminded the group as a whole and then it's still happening, you're left with no option.
The other thing I do that can be effective is go to the break. Take a five-minute stretch break and pull that person aside and say, "Look, Jake, when you're interrupting the group, when you're interrupting Sally, it's not allowing us to get the best out of the day. What’s going on for you that you feel the need to do that? What could I do differently as a facilitator to help you be heard?" Have that conversation with him and hopefully, he's not just doing it because he loves running amok. Hopefully, that brings him around.
On the flip side, out of the last 10 years of facilitating, I probably only had that happen twice where it's been that bad that I've had to even name it in the group or I've had to pull the person aside. First-time facilitators don't panic, it's not going to happen in every group. [laughs]
Leanne: I find it interesting that you said facilitators of 40 years still experience and you can sometimes trip and stumble, a lot of preparations involved in a workshop, it can be stressful. Why do you enjoy training other people?
Cherelle: I love it because I like to take complex stuff and make it simple and have people go, "Oh yes, that makes sense. Now we could do that." I like creating that energy that you can create as a facilitator and move people from, "I don't think I can do this", "This is so hard and complex", "We don't know what to do next", to the end of the day or the end of the two hours going, "Oh wow, we've got a solution. I never expected that. We’ve got an idea of how to move forward." If it's team building, they come in and they're quite separate and there's a few people that don't like each other and they're thinking the day is going to be rubbish. Then they come out the other end going, "Oh, that was really actually quite productive. Now, I understand so much better what we need to do next."
That's probably why my consultancy is called LIFT. I like that energy. I also like transferable learning. I like people to get outcomes that they can they can use. I also think back to when I was a little kid and I've got three sisters and we always played schools in our school holidays, we never wanted to be at school but in our school holidays, we played schools. I was always the teacher. [chuckles] I always wanted to be the one writing on the board. I think you haven't made an unnatural path towards that as well.
Leanne: Yes, they actually say when people are looking at, I guess, career advice they get you to reflect on what activities and things you were doing back when you were a kid, what kind of skills. There's a natural-- That’s just exactly, so being a teacher in school and now you're actually doing it for your job. That's very straight life. Now, reading your bio, you're accredited in a number of profiling tools including DiSC, MBTI, and Belbin. I know speaking to different facilitators, they all have the one that they really like the most. What's your favourite tool and why?
Cherelle: I love Belbin because it is a team based profile. Myers-Briggs is personality. I use that a lot in one-to-one coaching and leadership development. It tells you introvert/extrovert, how you think and process information. I like the DiSC because it's simpler and for some clients, it's cheaper as well. There’s a price factor. Myers-Briggs has 160 plus questions. DiSC has only got about 30 and Belbin has 10. 10 is very quick to do. It's the cost competitive. Mostly, it's about team roles.
Belbin is the only one that really does team roles. It's not your personality, it’s about your behaviors in a team. Whether you're leading a team or working in a team at some point you need to know your team role. It’s very appreciative inquiry based. It’s very much around your strengths and what you do well and what you bring to the team. I find it's a very non-threatening profile to use.
I've been using it since 2003. I'm probably the most experienced person in WA and probably in the top five in Australia because I've done about 1,500 profiles. It just freaks me out every time how accurate it is. Even now after doing so many profiles, people sit in front of me and go, "Wow, I answered 10 questions and this is like really relevant to me in a team."
It fits in as a facilitator well because you are working the team. Knowing their profiles means you know who's in the room from a behavioral point of view.
Leanne: Does your Belbin profile change depending on the team or work environment you're in or does it stay consistent?
Cherelle: It doesn't. I guess I can only answer from my experience, it doesn't really change over time unless you change your job significantly. I remember probably about eight years ago, I had a nurse manager and his Belbin profile strength was around shaping, driving change, being quite dynamic and energetic. That’s what he did well and then he changed jobs for a three-month period and had to do an audit on the health service which was all about data and measurement.
Interestingly, in that same period, he did his Belbin again because he'd joined another team. His Belbin top score was no longer the shape and drive and dynamic one, it was around completer-finisher which is all around deadlines and quantity and measurement. It’s not his natural preference and the three months just exhausted him because it's not his-- I actually had proof, scientific proof that it does change if you change your job significantly. He then went back to his normal job and was much happier. I think that's from my experience the only time it does change.
Often, if you're going to have a baby or you've just had a major life shift then your Belbin will go a little bit more even spread because you haven't used a lot of different skills in those transition times. Generally, the top three scores might shift place, one, two and three, but they stay as your top three.
Leanne: You mentioned before that you've got a bit of creativity in you, Cherelle. I'd love to hear, I only heard about this recently, you developed a new keynote, is it a workshop or a speech?
Cherelle: Well, that's a good question. It’s called an interactive keynote because I didn't want to become a keynote speaker that just stands on the stage and talks at people. It’s a combo.
Leanne: Yes, I love the title, the Courage to Create. Can you tell us what it's about?
Cherelle: It's got three elements and it's really bringing together my inventive part of my life which is Tricky Treats and it's an automatic toy and treat dispenser for dogs and I've been working on that for about five years. It brings that and my LIFT consultancy training and facilitating together in a space where I talk about the importance of diverse thinking, agile thinking is all the rage at the moment, people are talking about it a lot. Really what it means is getting people in the room and appreciating their diversity.
The interactive keynote for the Courage to Create has a first part around diverse thinking and how important it is that we appreciate each other's thought. We do an activity around that. People look at the same thing and then see it quite differently. The second part of it is a bit more serious. We talk about failure. Danner and Coopersmith have written a great book called The Other F Word. It’s on failure and they have a great quote in there that says, "Failure is the asset in your company that you've already paid for." If you've already paid for it, why wouldn't you examine it and use it? We tend to not do that.
We tend to push it to the side because we're embarrassed and then move on with the next idea. The second part of the interactive keynote talks about failure and how we manage that and obviously how we manage the emotions around that which are going to be embarrassment and possibly shame and how we rise up from that. We do an activity that’s fun in that quite serious bit of the keynote to talk about how we bounce back from failure. Then, we finish off with some Belbin team roles which is, are you a task person? Or are you a thinking person? Or are you a harmony people person?
People get to stand in their area and look at the other different people in the room and how similar or different we are. I have a bit of fun talking to them about how you see the world differently to the other people across the other side of the room.
Leanne: Wow, how did you actually decide to put this together and then also make the decision on what you include and what-- I guess more important question, is what you don't include?
Cherelle: Yes, hours and hours of pulling my hair out. It’s really hard to distill it down specially-- I'm looking at 25 years of knowledge, how do I get that into a one-hour keynote that's fun, that's not boring death by PowerPoint? It took a long time. I'd say it took over two weeks of intensive thinking and also other people giving me their feedback. People that could then share-- I shared my keynote with them and they'd go, "Oh, yes that doesn't really make sense." Or, "I'm going to be bored there." Really help asking people to give you feedback as being important and they see different parts of the keynote as important to them.
I'm putting it out there for other people not for me. I've done that to refine it all the time. I guess the other thing that drove me to those three areas and they are the three areas that my clients use over and over again so the diversity of views, knowing your team profile strengths and knowing how to navigate failure seem to be the common themes over the last five years that have come up more and more. Certainly in my business with Tricky Treats and having an invention, having a crazy idea and then taking it to commercial reality, they are the three things that I really encountered the most as well.
Leanne: Yes, having that side hustle sounds like you had a couple different side hustles going. How are you managing to juggle all of them and still deal with your clients?
Cherelle: [laughs] A lot of bowls fall on the floor regularly but I'm quite good at scooping them up. Well, you don't sleep. Sleep is a bit of a waste of time.
[laughter]
Cherelle: Although I watched a program last night that said sleep is essential for reconfirming our memories and creating the myelin around their brain better. I better get some more sleep. I guess time management is always an issue. Probably the simplest answer is to segment my day. I try and segment. Morning, I'm doing inventive work or I'm talking to potential buyers and things like that. The afternoon, I'm working on my keynote for a client next week. It does come down to planning.
I do have a virtual assistant who helps me and keeps me on track and manages my diary. I confess to her once a week all the things I haven't done [chuckles] that I need to now do for next week.
Leanne: You mentioned a few resources and really great videos to watch including the Adam Fraser one. Are there any other books or resources that you would recommend to first-time facilitators?
Cherelle: Yes, I would definitely say find a mentor because that's probably where I've learnt the most than from books. I'm going to say something that other people might have a completely different opinion on but there's not a lot of great books on facilitation. I would read some stuff around group dynamics. There’s lots of good books on group dynamics and the more you understand group dynamics, the better you are as a facilitator.
Anything written by-- I think his name is Roger Schwarz . Yes, Roger Schwarz, he's written Smart Leader, Smart Teens. Patrick Lencioni if you're more Italian, has written great books on team development and the five functions or dysfunctions of a team. As far as pure facilitation books go, Dale Hunter has written a couple, The Art of Facilitation and The Zen of Groups. I've found parts of those books quite good. There’s a Perth girl called Iwona Polowy. I always mispronounce her surname, sorry Iwona, she’s written Ordinary Meetings Don't Interest Me That Much. Her book is basically a selection of other facilitators, very experienced facilitators sharing their thoughts and of course her journey as well. They'd be my burst of thoughts.
Leanne: Finally, I want to talk a bit about your invention, Tricky Treats. If you'd like to share a bit more about your journey with that with the audience. Also, just explain have there been any, in terms of crossover in the skills that you've learnt by building up this business and an invention that you've brought into the world of facilitation? Are there any parallels?
Cherelle: Yes, there are huge parallels that I didn't anticipate. I thought I had two separate businesses that had nothing in common with each other. Particularly, now I'm doing my keynote on the Courage to Create. It’s so obvious that the universe has been leading me in this path. I can stand up and talk with authenticity about the courage to create like needing to find the courage. There's certainly days where I want to put the dinner over my head and it's just a bit hard.
I think too that the natural journey of an invention requires you to fail quite a lot and you have to get good at bouncing not just back but forwards from the failure. I can talk quite emotionally in a good way about what that means and what that means to put yourself out there and have people say, "Oh, that's a rubbish idea", or "That's a good idea" or whatever it might be. I think too that my facilitation skills have helped me in my invention business because often I'm sitting in a room talking to business people, retailers, I don't know anything about their world, but I have good questions.
Being a facilitator gives you good, powerful questions that you can ask to learn more. That's fed backwards into Tricky Treats. I think overall too I talk a lot about agility in my facilitation work, and I want my teams in the room to be agile. Really understanding what that means and being able to not hold on to a thought or an idea so tightly that you're not able to listen to someone else's view is key.
Leanne: Cherelle, I'm so excited for you. We're talking about the idea of Tricky Treats when it was in its infancy in Broome a few years ago. I remember at the Mangrove hotel you told me about your idea and I was instantly excited because I thought of my two dogs at home getting bored, digging up the garden. It's really exciting to hear how you've progressed and how it's benefited both the invention itself plus your facilitation as well. Finally, where can people find you?
Cherelle: That's a good question because I'm just about to update the website. Our website is liftps.com and probably they could just send me an email, I'm happy to respond to any questions or support any of those new facilitators that might be listening, cherelle@liftps.com they could reach me there.
Leanne: Awesome. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. Cherelle, it's been so great catching up. I love hearing all of your updates every couple of months about the business. Well done and thanks again for sharing your advice for first time facilitators.
Cherelle: Good, I hope it was helpful. It's been my pleasure to work with you again. Who knew our lives would cross in this way?
Leanne: [laughs] Who knew. Thanks again, Cherelle.
Episode 8: Storytelling works! (Because no one's ever asked to see a Powerpoint presentation twice)
In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it’s the manipulation of emotions.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it’s the manipulation of emotions.
It’s a skill that can be taught and he shares some of the techniques he uses to engage his audience, whether they're 10 year old kids, or politicians.
In this episode you’ll learn:
What a story is (and what it isn’t)
The details you should leave in your story and more importantly; the details you can leave out
How you can become more memorable by sharing things that are vulnerable, amusing or embarrassing
That it’s important to assume that no one wants to listen to anything you have to say
How to start collecting your own stories by reflecting on everyday moments
About our guest
Matthew Dicks is the internationally bestselling author of the novels Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend, Something Missing, Unexpectedly, Milo, The Perfect Comeback of Caroline Jacobs, and the upcoming Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling. His novels have been translated into more than 25 languages worldwide.
When not hunched over a computer screen, Matthew fills his days as an elementary school teacher, a storyteller, a speaking coach, a blogger, a wedding DJ, a minister, a life coach, and a Lord of Sealand.
Matthew is a 35-time Moth StorySLAM champion and 5-time GrandSLAM champion. He has also told stories for This American Life, TED, The Colin McEnroe Show, The Story Collider, The Liar Show, Literary Death Match, The Mouth, and many others.Heis also the co-founder and creative director of Speak Up, a Hartford-based storytelling organization that produces shows throughout New England.Matthew is the creator and co-host of Boy vs. Girl, a podcast about gender and gender stereotypes.
Resources
Grab his new book! Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling
Video: Life lessons learned while pole vaulting told by Matthew Dicks
Transcript
Read the full First Time Facilitator transcript with Matthew Dicks.
Thoughts on the episode? Share your comments below!
Episode 7: Preparation: It's the security blanket for facilitators with Sue Johnston
In this First Time Facilitator episode, Sue Johnston from the Artemis Group shares practical facilitation advice from an introvert's perspective. She talks about how she ‘accidentally’ wound up as a facilitator after working on strategies to make weekly teleconferences more effective.Sue also emphasises the importance of preparation, and why it’s critical to revisit and communicate the purpose of a workshop.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, Sue Johnston from the Artemis Group shares practical facilitation advice from an introvert's perspective. She talks about how she ‘accidentally’ wound up as a facilitator after working on strategies to make weekly teleconferences more effective.Sue also emphasises the importance of preparation, and why it’s critical to revisit and communicate the purpose of a workshop.
In this episode you’ll learn
An introvert’s perspective on how it takes courage to step up in the room
Why it’s important to ‘call out’ behaviour in the moment and reinforce the purpose of your workshop
Why preparation is critical and how it works as a security blanket, particularly for first time facilitators.
Why you need to bring your authentic self to your facilitation
How to incorporate SCARF, a neuro-leaderhsip tool to engage your participants.
About our guest
Sue Johnston founded Artemis Group in 2000 as a vehicle for her professional services work with clients and entrepreneurial adventures.She’s a registered nurse, public sector advisor, health sector strategist, manager, entrepreneur, and now an advisor, facilitator and leadership coach.
Her clients include public sector organisations, private sector businesses, non-government organisations, and individual leaders and entrepreneurs.She’s a certified Daring Way Facilitator Candidate, a Results Based Coach with The Neuro Leadership Institute and a member of the International Coach Federation.
Resources
Sue's book recommendation: The secrets of facilitation by Michael Wilkinson
Episode 5: How to use humour to deliver x-factor presentations (and laughs) with Andrew Tarvin
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this episode you’ll learn:
Simple hacks you can use to add humour in your workplace
Why using humour consistently can change behaviours (people start to perceive meetings differently and creates engagement in the long-term)
How to start introducing humour by trying one or two things with your emails
How Andrew developed and rehearsed his TEDx speech
Why he suggests first time facilitators should take improv classes
About our guest
Andrew Tarvin is the world’s first Humor Engineer, teaching people how to get better results while having more fun. He has worked with thousands of people at 200+ organizations, including P&G, GE, and Microsoft. Combining his background as a project manager at Procter & Gamble with his experience as an international comedian, Andrew’s program are engaging, entertaining, and most important, effective. He is a best-selling author, has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and TEDx, and has delivered programs in 50 states, 18 countries, and 3 continents. He loves the color orange and is obsessed with chocolate.
References
Transcript
Episode 3: Conquering your fear of public speaking with expert trainer and facilitator, Nikki McMurray
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL FIND OUT ABOUT:
How she used to throw up before speaking in public and how she overcame that fear
How she manages the participants (and her own) energy levels over a five-day workshop.
Why it’s important to shut the world off (and your phone) when you’re in a learning environment
Why you need a sense of humour when working on the road
Her strategies for ensuring introverts are heard in a group workshop
Her simple hack that ensures participants grasp the instructions of a group activity
The two things she would do differently if she had to start her business again
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.Her facilitation style is respectful to the adult learner’s past experience and qualifications with a hands-on, highly interactive approach with a focus of connecting theory with practice.Clients comment that programs and personal coaching conducted by Nikki are high quality, very practical and personally challenging.She has a diverse background that includes consulting in a training and on the job coaching capacity to Mining open cut and underground (coal and hard rock), Rail, Water, Gas, Manufacturing, State and Federal Government industries as well as many others.
REFERENCE
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Leanne: I'd like to introduce you to our guest today. She has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. And as a facilitator, she's terrific at really honing in, and evaluating the dynamics of a group. She ensures that all of her sessions are hands on, and interactive with the focus on connecting theory with practice. Her background expands consulting, training, and coaching for industries for a company called ‘Corporate Learning Partners’. And she's worked in open cut and underground mining, rail, water, gas, manufacturing, and government. Welcome to the podcast, Nikki McMurray.Nikki: Thanks LeanneLeanne: Nikki, 25 years is a long time to be working in education and learning in development. Have you ever had a career outside of that industry?Nikki: Yes, in the very early days, I was in IT and then I went into Marketing. And I happened to get a job in the world of corporate adult education, fell in love with it, and haven't left it since.Leanne: So do you think some of the IT, and marketing skills helped you where you are today?Nikki: I think absolutely, absolutely. And you know even though you're in the industry of adult education, you're actually in everyone else's industry. It's not just adult education in its purest form like a university. You're in and out of different industries, and that's what makes it interesting and exciting.Leanne: How did you actually get into the world of facilitation and education?Nikki: I took on a job as a coordinator of P&O and it was in their training and education area. I really enjoyed the vibe, and the excitement, and the enthusiasm, and the fact that when you partake in skills or knowledge there’s a certain amount of excitement for the participants, and sometimes even nervousness.From there, I went to uni at night, and then studied adult education. And I was actually not a facilitator for a very long time. I stayed in Administration, and I worked my way up to being a site manager for a computer training firm that concentrated only on corporate. And about 12 years ago, I walked away from corporate, and started my own business. And that was the first time I ever facilitated full time. So it was pretty scary, and exciting.Leanne: So you came from an admin background and then to managing client training in organisations, do you think that helped you when you became a facilitator?Nikki: Oh absolutelyLeanne: In what way?Nikki: I think it’s because I focus primarily on leadership workshops and I have been a manager for many years. Therefore I have a really good understanding of a lot of the issues, and the challenges leaders face in the workplace. And most of those challenges don’t vary from industry to industry. So I can relate. I'm very empathetic and compassionate for all the leaders I work with now as a coach and a facilitator in their area of leadership. Because there probably isn't a challenge that they're having that I haven't had myself in real life, where I tripped and stumbled as well.Leanne: I guess it helps because you can talk the language when it comes to feeding back information to clients about what's going on in the training environment too. And then provide feedback on what they can do to continue building on a person’s ability after you’ve left.Nikki: I think that's what good adult education is all about; sustainability, making sure that things are handed over in a manner that is easy for the individual to contextualise back in the workplace. For them to be out and go back and know “I can do this” and “I might probably trip and stumble little bit”. But I was warned I was going to trip and stumble, but I want to do it bad enough that I'm motivated to push through.Leanne: Yeah, that's really good insight into embedding all those learning strategies. Any other tips on doing that? Because I think it's an area where companies struggle. You can go in with approach of…, oh we're going to run this workshop, and then we expect people to change instantly. But we know that's not the case. What do you recommend to a client?Nikki: The number one best way of getting a return on investment when it comes to adult education is ensuring that before the individual goes to whatever the learning is - a meeting occurs between them and their one up. A discussion occurs about the workshop objectives and what do you personally need to get out of this. And then a follow-up meeting. That is the number one way of getting a return on investment.Participants walk into my learning environment with all different expectations. Some purely for lunch. Let's get serious - unfortunately, that is true. A day off work and I should get a really nice lunch here.Others come in with no real idea, but just happy to be there. You know I’m a new people leader, and I just need anything you can give me. The ones that get the most out of it actually come in with very specific challenges. You can't remember everything from a one to even a three day workshop. You're only going to really remember what's relevant, and what you need.So if you come in without anything really in mind, you probably walk out going, “Wow that was really interesting and I met some nice people.” But none of the tools will have really stuck for you because there was nothing in it in the first place, unless a challenge through the workshop comes to mind, and then you start zeroing in on how you can fix that. But it's amazing how many people come into a workshop with no understanding of even what we're going to be covering. That one-on-one meeting with the boss before and after is important.Leanne: Okay, so let's just say that you do have participants in the workshop, and they've got no idea why they're there. As the facilitator, you expect there has been some sort of conversation. How then do you manage that and bring them into the learning journey?Nikki: I think that through activities and discussions you start getting an understanding of where they're at in people leadership, how much experience they've got, and the confidence level. And normally by that confidence level, you can probably guess the areas that they probably find challenging. It’s probably not even on their radar because they're avoiding it.Leanne: So you talked a lot about the participants pre-work. But I just want to talk about your preparation before a workshop. And I know in our work together, we'll have a workshop that starts at 10:00 in the morning and Nikki will show up at 7:00 in the morning to get the room ready. Is it sort of like a ritual that you've had over the course of your time in this environment - that it's really important to prepare?Nikki: I like at least an hour and a half, and if I have more, I’ll take as much as I can get. I think it's really important to be very familiar with your environment, with the technology that's available, and also the way in which you want the room set out. The way in which the room set out, the music that you've got playing all set a tone for when they walk in the door, and that also includes your own preparation. I am a huge prepper. People ay to me all the time, “Oh I just wing it.” That might work for them but I would never ever do that. I just can’t.I do a lot of preparation even if I'm running the same program over and over again. And the room and making sure that it set up the way you need it be, to work the participants is really important. You've got to be thinking ahead of the types of activities you’re doing, type of space that you've got available, and be able to utilise everything that you can; the best way you can. That might be walking in and rearranging the whole room that someone has so kindly set up for you - because we thought there were going to be 16 participants and now we find out that there's going to be 12. It's nice that it's cozy and intimate if we have smaller numbers. But it also it's important that they're comfortable if there are large numbers, and there's always enough space for everybody. A lot of the organisations I work for are very male dominated. Girls/women I find don't find it too hard being a bit more squashed in; where the guys like a little bit more space.Leanne: You did mention earlier that some people are there just for the catering. I find that really interesting. A lot of the feedback sheets we get back, if the workshop has delivered the comments are about the catering. Is there an ultimate menu for workshops?Nikki: It's like air-conditioning. It'll never be perfect for everybody! And most organisations these days don't even do catering. Most people bring their own when it's in-house. So if people are lucky enough to actually get the company to provide the catering it’s normally a nice lunch because it's a free lunch.Leanne: The only feedback I have about that is I made the mistake once of serving cakes and sweet food at morning tea and hot savoury items that afternoon. And I didn't really hear the end of it! So switch those two around they will love the catering.Okay, so let's talk about energy. And a lot of workshop you facilitate run up to five day workshops. I’ve never done anything like that. Even after one day it can be pretty exhausting. How do you keep your participants moving along over the course of five days?Nikki: The course design is really important in regards to energy levels. As you know, I like to have them up and moving around approximately every 20 minutes to 30 minutes because I think that most of the people I work with don't actually sit at desks full-time. So they like sitting down but they're not used to it, and find it really hard to stay focused. If you have them moving around to doing activities or even just standing, it can make a huge, huge difference to the energy levels.For me personally, I'm pretty passionate about what I do. So I think it's important to shut the outside world off. You know everyone has things going on outside the learning environment. And I think it's really important as a facilitator that we're able to just to shut down turn our mobile phones off, as well as participants. Create that environment that's going to be best for them to get something out of the program. I am naturally pretty high energy.Leanne: I agree with that!Nikki: I do know a lot of people that are extreme introverts that do what I do, and they really work themselves up. That might be with coffee or a sugar hit first thing in the morning, a Coca-Cola, or something to just get themselves fired up. I don't need that. I just drink green tea. You don't need me in a learning environment with coffee. I’d be climbing the walls.Leanne: That's a really sort of great lead into a facilitation, and getting up in front of a room. Was that something that came naturally to you; public speaking, presenting in public?Nikki: No, I was petrified of presenting in public. Physically used to throw up.Leanne I think our listeners are grateful that you've said that. Because people that I've spoken to don't really have the confidence, and think that it's something that they can’t overcome. Obviously, you're one example of someone that's overcome it. What were the steps you took - how did you actually work your way up to becoming a facilitator you are today?Nikki: My father was very insistent that all of his children speak in public. He felt that if you had the confidence to speak publicly, you'd have the confidence to do anything you want in life. It wasn’t really about necessarily publicly speaking, and the skills about it. It was about having the confidence. Because if you look at what is the word people's biggest fear in the world, it's public speaking; next to spiders, and heights I believe.I did join the debating team, and I made a complete idiot of myself every single time I got up; that’s if I got up. Most of the time I was down the girl's toilet heaving. And when I did get up, I would go into flight; fight; freeze. I would freeze, and make squeaking noises. So every time I ever decided to join the debating team, there was always this huge sigh. “Oh my goodness she's doing it again. We've got no chance to get to the finals this year.” I left school knowing I would never speak in public. It was absolutely physically impossible.Very soon after I got a job, and I was asked after a few months working there if I could do a presentation to the board - that I was to walk in, there would be some questions, I would answer them, and then hop out.I was really honest with my boss and said, “Look, I can’t do that, and this is the reason why…”. They made it really clear it wasn't negotiable. And dad at times was asking me, “How’s your job going?” I said, “I love it, but I'm leaving.” And he said, “Why?” And I said, “They want me to talk, stand up and talk to board members. We all know what's going to happen.” So I'm just going to resign now. And he said, “Oh look, if you’re going to resign then you might as well give it a red hot go.”I went in with my resignation in my back pocket thinking you know, maybe I could throw it over the mess I might make. I did a lot of nodding and shaking my head trying to answer their questions with yes and no answers. After a while, one of the board members just said, “Look, you're wasting our time. Do you want to leave?” I just shrugged. I was going to resign anyway. I gave it a shot, and I walked out. One of the board members came up to me in the afternoon and said to me, “Are you scared of public speaking?” I said, “Petrified.” And he said, “I can help you with it.” And I said, “All right, it's okay, I’m resigning.”Dad kept saying to me, “You know how long are you going to run from this?” And I was like forever sounds good. There are plenty of jobs around. I'm not worried. I’m really skilled.And the board member talked me out of resigning, and took me under his wing. Over the following months, I got more and more confident. And it's something, even to this day that if I do not get up and do public speaking at least once a month, I go through all the nerves all over again. It's still there. It's now it's about managing it. So when people talk to me about their fears of getting up in front of a group of people oh, I can relate very well. I'm very empathetic.Leanne: So what would be your advice to someone that is a first time facilitator or wants to make that transition from subject matter experts to sharing their knowledge?Nikki: The more you do it, the easier it gets. Everyone that first rides a bike will fall off. Every time anyone gets up to publicly speak, they're going to make mistakes. It’s about motivation. It's about wanting to do it bad enough that you got to put up with the trips, and the stumbles, and the scrapes, and the bruises.If you really want to do it, you just need to practice just like when you rode a bike for the very first time. And public speaking is the same.You do it often enough, you can walk away from it. You come back you might be a little bit wobbly, but you're find your feet a lot faster. So practice makes perfect. I had plenty of people that I used to watch. Either for my own professional development, or watching someone before hiring them. So I know what made a good facilitator.It’s about using every opportunity you get to speak in public. Most people that don't like it when they're offered to do it, will run a mile. I did it myself. So the idea of it is is feeling motivated enough to get good at it to throw yourself in every opportunity you get and jump on board. It's not something you can read about and go, “Okay, it'll be like reading a book on how to ride a bike.” And then thinking, “After I've read the book, I can go and jump on the bike and I'm not going to fall off.”Leanne: You just absolutely have a great presence when you're in a workshop. And you look across participants, and everyone's really listening on your every word. If you had to pick one unique skill or superpower that you bring to the role of facilitator, what do you think that is for you?Nikki: Well I'm going to actually ask you. You've watched me a few times facilitate, so can I ask you what you…What do you think my superpower is?Leanne: Ok this is my observation as a client. When you’ve been running a session for a couple of hours I'll just drop in at lunch; or at the end of the day. I’ll ask you how the course been going with your participants. And very quickly you can go around the room and talk about each participant - pointing out things like ‘That person's not engaged at the moment’; ‘This person's a little bit quiet’; ‘I think the three sitting here is probably not a good idea, I'm going to split them up tomorrow’.You know exactly how each participant in that room is feeling, thinking, and their level of engagement in the workshop. But not only that, you've got solutions on how you're going to fix that, and make it better for them.. I think that's an impressive thing I’ve found about your facilitation style - identifying what’s going on in that room to an amazing level of detail. Would you agree with that?Nikki: It's my responsibility to ensure I have engagement. These people need to walk away with particular skills. And they’re not going to walk away with everything. But they should be walking away with two or three things that they can feel comfortable enough to use back in the workplace tomorrow. It would be very poor of me not to understand where my participants are going. And there's certain activities that I do first up to get a little bit more of an understanding of them, and give them the opportunity to talk about what they want to talk that about. There are certain icebreakers that I like using due to the effect that you get a little bit more of an understanding of why people are here, why they are in front of you and how much experience they have.Leanne: You mentioned a couple of icebreakers that you use to let down their guard, find more information about them, reasons why they're in the room, levels of experience. Is there a particular icebreaker that's your go-to one to find that information out?Nikki: I like to line them up in order of how long they've been a people leader for. Make a little bit of fun, you can’t open your mouth when you do it. Make sure that those hand signals are kept nice and clean also. From that, get them to then go down the line and introduce themselves. Ask them ‘Who are you, what's your role around here, how long have you been doing people leader’? Then I get them to team up, pair up with those that are least experience with those that have got more experience, and talk about what's their number one leadership challenge. And that's where we we find out who came in with something on their mind, and those that are just there not sure even what they're there to learn. But I think all senses are on high alert in that first one hour of the workshop as a facilitator.You’re really watching, and observing, and listening even when you're getting them to do an activity - you're listening to who's being more dominant than somebody else in the activity, who's being supportive of each other in the activity, who's sitting there doing absolutely nothing and looking a little bit concerned. You know because at the end of the day, we're going to have introverts, we're going to have extroverts. And we don't want the introverts walked all over.So in that first the first hour, I use the DISC model and I normally within the first hour will be able to work out who is where on the DISC model. That also allows me then to know what's the best way of communicating with them and where their stretch places would be. So I consider how far I can stretch them before they get us feel a little bit uncomfortable because you want a little bit of a stretch, but we certainly don't want to break anyone. We want them to be supported.Leanne: How do you then manage then bring in people that might be more quiet or reserved? How do you bring them into the workshop, and engage them?Nikki: With Dominance, we normally find they’re quite vocal. Not all the time, but quite often. They also they want to share their experiences and their stories. It's about allowing them the space to. But also making at times drawing the line and at times saying, “You know I think you're working too hard. Jeff I've heard from you for the last four times. I think you might want to have a break now. You’re carrying the load for all these other people. Let's hear from someone that hasn't said anything yet.” And it's about being polite and respectful - but also with a bit of fun. There's a little bit of tongue in cheek in being able to manage those personalities.Leanne: We spoke about earlier, there are certain skills of a facilitator - preparing is really important for you and making sure you use all of your senses, to see what’s going on, and then listening in to create a good dynamic. Is there anything else that a facilitator really needs in their back pocket?Nikki: I was thinking about this on my drive in this afternoon, and there are so many. And for every facilitator you asked that question to, it'll be something different. Now I am extremely high energy, so I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I can be quite overwhelming if you're a real introvert, and it's working out who is who in your zoo. You then moderate yourself of what's appropriate for this learning environment.But by really being prepared with your material you then have the energy, and the headspace when you’re facilitating to change very quickly on a dime.If you have’t prepared and you are facilitating, and things aren’t going well, the energy levels aren’t right, or people are becoming argumentative. It's very hard for you to throw in other strategiesIf you’ve got the content in your head, you can be quite flexible. And you can introduce different strategies all the time because you know your content well enough that it happens no matter what. You can then, in your head, while delivering the content be thinking about other strategies, and things you've got to do. That was probably a really long winded.Leanne: Aha! I love it. Long winded is good. Nikki: Because if you were to get up, and say the same thing. Like for instance an induction. But I can imagine if you ran inductions you would get to the point where you would memorise it. You would actually be able to think about other things while doing it. And you will notice other things because you know the content so well. Your head doesn't have to be all in the content.You'll be noticing people leaning forward, or arms folded, or looking at the window, or having a chat with the person next to... You'll notice all of those things because you know you material so well.Leanne: Yeah that brings me into an interesting story. Nikki kindly asked me to co-facilitate a session last year and it was part of a leadership course. So I studied, and studied, and studied on this model. I'd been working at a TAFE for the last six years, and I walked into Nikki’s workshop, and I delivered this session like it was at a TAFE. And after the workshop, Nikki said to me ‘You’re training them, and you’re not facilitating”. And I didn’t understand what she meant. I thought that was what I was meant to do. I was meant to train them, and teach them in this model. Then you explained that training and facilitating are two different skill sets. Do you want to expand on that a bit more?Nikki: Yes, so when you’re training someone; in something, you can work out their current skill and knowledge and then you feel that gap in a very quite structured manner.When you facilitate, there’s more of an expectation of these people are coming in with this certain amount of experience, and knowledge, and skill already. They’ve already got a fair bit, and it's about really pulling out what they already have in their heads.And so you will have someone that's got a lot of experience. You'll have someone in your learning environment with 20, 30 years experiences, and then you'll have someone with none. It's about managing the dynamics of the group - that those people who have got the experience are able to share it, and give those who have got no experience the opportunity to share how they would use that, and have a feel about it, whether they could see themselves using it, and then filling the gaps.Leanne: All right, so we've spoken a lot about activities, and energy levels. Let's talk about staging an activity. Do you go through a specific process when you do that?Nikki: I'll give you an example. I've been working with a company recently with people who are people leaders that have actually been chosen to co-facilitate with me on a leadership program.We put them through some facilitation skills to prepare them to be shoulder to shoulder with me in a learning environment doing certain sections of the program. And interestingly, they always choose flip chart activities. And they go, “They look like the easiest. I’ll do these.”It never ceases to amaze me how much chaos can be created in the manner in which they set the activity up. I'll give you an example. When I get people to do a flip chart activity, I first off show them each of the flip charts; Then I say to them, “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up in four groups, and I'm going to give you one of these flip charts each. I'm going to get you to work on it for two minutes, or three minutes. And then after that, I will rotate your group to the next flip chart.”It's amazing that with these kind of facilitators they’ll start the commencement of the activity with, “We’re going to do an activity I'll get you all to stand up.”It never ceases to amaze me that when you get people to stand up, they automatically will start talking to the person next to them, wonder whether they meant to take a pen with them, or… And they don't even know the activity, but chaos has already being created.So it’s really simple things which are one of those things where we trip and stumble a lot. We'll throw at an instruction and everyone will go, “What did that mean, or what did she say about this, or what are we meant to be doing next?” And it will create this chaos, and you've got to bring them all back to the centre of the room, and then explain it again. And sometimes again.Leanne: So I guess you're saying prevention is better than cure here.Nikki: It isLeanne: Say, “Hey we’re going to do an activity. I'm going to explain it now.” Try and prevent them from standing.Nikki: I say that the moment they stand is the moment you will have them disengaged. They will suddenly need to go to the loo, get a cup of coffee, check they’re phone, be on their way to their activity. So it's best while they’re seated to give them as much information as you can. Then before they stand, let them know what's going to happen next. That's why I say “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up, and I'll get you to work in groups; four groups. And each of the groups will be given a flip chat”… If you start the activity with, “We’re going to an activity I'll get you stand up.” The moment they stand up, it is so much more difficult to get them reengaged in finishing what instructions you need to do.Leanne: How do you manage preparing with flying, again keeping the energy levels, responding to e-mails, running a business on the road for most of the week? How do you do that?Nikki: You can't take yourself too seriously. When you work and live on the road, you've got to have a sense of humour because Murphy’s Law is just sitting there on your shoulder. You can have a whole week of what could ever go wrong, does go wrong. If you don't keep your sense of humour I think and if you take yourself too seriously you could end up being a very stressed, cranky, angry person.Leanne: How long has Corporate Learning Partners been operating?Nikki: About 13 years now.Leanne: Okay, and you mentioned that was the first time that you made into a full time facilitation role.Nikki: Yeah, so I went from managing training organisations, and walked out the door, and went into developing leadership programs, facilitating leadership programs.Leanne: So making that step from I guess full time employment to running your own business is a huge step. You have no idea how it's going to go.Nikki: Massive step.Leanne: Why did you make that step? What propelled you do that? Did you have any clients sort of on the books? Or you just thought you could do things better?Nikki: I actually felt that it was my natural next step. I'd been in the management area for a very long time. For those that are people leaders out there, you will hear know what I mean by you know, you get to a point where you go is this something that I want to continue doing. I got to a point where I was at the level of general management by the time I left. It was getting more and more paper orientated, not people - and I like being around people.So I thought, “Why not give it a go?” And it was a huge risk. I had no clients. I did have a very strong network of colleagues because I had for so many years worked with other facilitators I’d hired as contractors to do work for me. So I had a wonderful network, and an incredibly supportive network. There's a couple there that used to receive phone calls every night after I finish my day going, “I think this is wrong. And what do you would you do about that?” That network was absolutely crucial.Leanne: Looking back at starting a business, would you do anything a bit differently?Nikki: As mentioned before, you can't know everything when you take the leap of faith to do something. You've got a bit of knowledge about what you're doing. At the end of the day, I knew a lot about adult education, and I knew a lot about how to manage clients. I knew a lot about how you know, people would come to the training when I was a manager and say, “Look we think we need these, and this is the reason why”. I was already quite good at being able to interpret concerns, and put them into practical ways of moving forward.So it took a lot to the table from my experience. But you know registering businesses, organising GST etc when I had a mortgage and a kid in a private school. So you’re really juggling that. One moment I'm developing, the next moment I’m presenting, the next moment I’m invoicing then I'm having to follow up; juggling all of it. It was a huge learning curve. Yeah, so having a good accountant would be believe it or not right up there. And if I had to have a second one, it would be have a great network. Sometimes it's just nice to have a sounding board.Leanne: Will definitely put those two recommendations in our show notes for this episode. Where can people find you?Nikki: www.corporatelearningpartners.com.au has all the details. Plus a little bit about what we do, the tops companies we work for, and the work that we've done in the past.Leanne: Absolutely recommend Nikki, and her team. They do a stellar job in delivering anything that you've got.. So Nikki, thank you so much for coming on the ‘First Time Facilitator Podcast’. I've definitely learnt an awful lot to up my facilitation game. And I've already had some great feedback from you over the last year and a half. So thank you for that.Nikki: Thank you Leanne for the opportunity.
A 45 Minute Workshop Outline on Public Speaking with ImpaCCCT
I met Petra from ImpaCCCT when we presented at the first instalment of Disrupt HR this year. She invited me to share my tips on communication and in particular, public speaking to her Best Talents Meetup Group in the Brisbane CBD last week. And I only had 45 minutes.Phew, such an open topic! There are so many elements to public speaking. I didn’t really know where to start. Upon reflection, I’ve discovered a common pattern to the way I work when I’m asked to deliver a workshop or speech.Download a one-pager checklist that I use to craft any type of presentation.I used this one-pager as a focal point for discussion at the Meetup. This allowed me to give the audience direction, set expectations and also gave them a prompt to ask questions. What was interesting was how the questions that were asked directed the conversation to things I hadn’t even considered discussing that morning.
How the Meetup Started
Yes, we met in a public space (a café), but that was no excuse. It was 8am and we began by warming up our voices. We all stood up, stretched our arms in the air, sighed, rolled our tongues, sang out some ‘la la la’s’ and introduced ourselves. We then shared what had brought us to the Meetup that morning and outlined details of the worst presentation we had ever seen.Warming up your voice is essential before speaking in any defining moment in your life. If you need tips, watch this video from Julian Treasure: How to speak so people want to listen.
Mastering public speaking - it’s all about the ‘ouch’ moments
After warming up our voices, I shared the Ladder of Learning model. This is one of my favourite Learning and Development models that I use in a lot of workshops.
The model demonstrates that the key to any type of Skill Mastery is accepting (and embracing) that you’re going to experience ‘ouch’ moments - times where it’s really uncomfortable. Think back to the time when you were learning how to drive. It was extremely nerve-wracking and frustrating - particularly if you were driving a manual car and navigating a hill-start! It felt like mastering the skill of driving would never happen. Thought, it was worth the perseverance, because the rewards of driving were too great. Driving meant independence and accessibility; graduating to an adult world.It’s the same with public speaking. We can sit back, comfortably stagnant in the ‘Conscious Incompetence’ zone, or we can choose to invest, practice and tackle those ‘ouch’ moments to graduate to the ‘Conscious’, or even ‘Unconscious Competence’ status when we’re at the front of the room.What does the ‘ouch’ moment look like when it comes to public speaking?
- Saying ‘YES!’ to speak when your immediate gut response is ‘NO!’
- The knots in your stomach the night/week before your big presentation (this is a good signal to buckle down and ensure your preparation is spot-on).
- Attending a Meetup about Public Speaking.
New contexts or environments can sometimes slip us down the ladder
I’ve learnt that a change in context or environment can force a slip down the ladder. Again, an example I used was driving. In Australia, I see myself in the ‘Unconscious Competence’ sector - when I drive, I feel like I’m on autopilot. However, when I traveled to Canada earlier this year I slipped back into ‘Conscious Competence’ where I was actively thinking about every action I took when I was in the driver’s seat. I even had a post-it note on my steering wheel reminding me which side of the road to stay on.It’s the same with presentations. Over our career, we can be comfortable presenting in front of the same audiences and in the same room (‘Unconscious Competence’) and suddenly you’re wheeled in front of the Board. The stakes are higher and your nerves are heightened - which may have you slipping back into ‘Conscious Competence’. This isn’t a bad thing - it’s great and gives you more ‘ouch’ moments, which will help you improve over time. To evolve as a public speaker, look for opportunities that are at the next level and continually challenge you.
What about the most high-stakes environment of all time, the dreaded job interview?
An environment where the pressure and stakes are at an all-time high is the job interview.A couple of participants attending the Meetup were in job-hunt mode and were quite early on in their careers. In many job interviews, you’re asked to provide examples of situations where you have demonstrated a particular skill. We have all been asked a question that starts with, ‘So, tell me about a time when…’.My advice is to start collating story examples early in your careers. I would use a simple template like this one:[table id=2 /]If you start collecting your life experiences and transcribing them into a simple Google Sheets table, you can weave them into any presentation - not only the job interview. In future when you’re writing a speech you then have a database of some personal anecdotes you can utilise to demonstrate a point. This is gold. It’s very tricky thinking of those stories off-hand.You can even start a folder in your inbox called ‘Stories’ and drag emails that remind you of a great story to this folder as an even easier way to start.We spent the remainder of time talking through the one-pager handout which included the following information split into three major categories:
- Preparation.
- Crafting your content.
- Presenting with power - for more tips, view my article Disrupt HR: The Creative Process in 7 Simple Steps
[table id=1 /]Download a one-pager checklist that I use to craft any type of presentation.If you’re in Brisbane, join the Best Talents Meetup group and join us for a monthly coffee and 45 minutes of top content!