Episode 5: How to use humour to deliver x-factor presentations (and laughs) with Andrew Tarvin
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this First Time Facilitator episode, we hear from Humor Engineer, Andrew Tarvin on how he crafts and embeds comedy into his presentations and work life. Andrew provides simple, actionable tips on how to do this; and why it's important to brings laughter into the workplace.
In this episode you’ll learn:
Simple hacks you can use to add humour in your workplace
Why using humour consistently can change behaviours (people start to perceive meetings differently and creates engagement in the long-term)
How to start introducing humour by trying one or two things with your emails
How Andrew developed and rehearsed his TEDx speech
Why he suggests first time facilitators should take improv classes
About our guest
Andrew Tarvin is the world’s first Humor Engineer, teaching people how to get better results while having more fun. He has worked with thousands of people at 200+ organizations, including P&G, GE, and Microsoft. Combining his background as a project manager at Procter & Gamble with his experience as an international comedian, Andrew’s program are engaging, entertaining, and most important, effective. He is a best-selling author, has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and TEDx, and has delivered programs in 50 states, 18 countries, and 3 continents. He loves the color orange and is obsessed with chocolate.
References
Transcript
Episode 3: Conquering your fear of public speaking with expert trainer and facilitator, Nikki McMurray
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL FIND OUT ABOUT:
How she used to throw up before speaking in public and how she overcame that fear
How she manages the participants (and her own) energy levels over a five-day workshop.
Why it’s important to shut the world off (and your phone) when you’re in a learning environment
Why you need a sense of humour when working on the road
Her strategies for ensuring introverts are heard in a group workshop
Her simple hack that ensures participants grasp the instructions of a group activity
The two things she would do differently if she had to start her business again
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Nikki McMurray has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. Her roles ranged from managing registered training organizations, managing the training function within organizations and facilitating.Her facilitation style is respectful to the adult learner’s past experience and qualifications with a hands-on, highly interactive approach with a focus of connecting theory with practice.Clients comment that programs and personal coaching conducted by Nikki are high quality, very practical and personally challenging.She has a diverse background that includes consulting in a training and on the job coaching capacity to Mining open cut and underground (coal and hard rock), Rail, Water, Gas, Manufacturing, State and Federal Government industries as well as many others.
REFERENCE
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Leanne: I'd like to introduce you to our guest today. She has over 25 years experience in the adult education industry. And as a facilitator, she's terrific at really honing in, and evaluating the dynamics of a group. She ensures that all of her sessions are hands on, and interactive with the focus on connecting theory with practice. Her background expands consulting, training, and coaching for industries for a company called ‘Corporate Learning Partners’. And she's worked in open cut and underground mining, rail, water, gas, manufacturing, and government. Welcome to the podcast, Nikki McMurray.Nikki: Thanks LeanneLeanne: Nikki, 25 years is a long time to be working in education and learning in development. Have you ever had a career outside of that industry?Nikki: Yes, in the very early days, I was in IT and then I went into Marketing. And I happened to get a job in the world of corporate adult education, fell in love with it, and haven't left it since.Leanne: So do you think some of the IT, and marketing skills helped you where you are today?Nikki: I think absolutely, absolutely. And you know even though you're in the industry of adult education, you're actually in everyone else's industry. It's not just adult education in its purest form like a university. You're in and out of different industries, and that's what makes it interesting and exciting.Leanne: How did you actually get into the world of facilitation and education?Nikki: I took on a job as a coordinator of P&O and it was in their training and education area. I really enjoyed the vibe, and the excitement, and the enthusiasm, and the fact that when you partake in skills or knowledge there’s a certain amount of excitement for the participants, and sometimes even nervousness.From there, I went to uni at night, and then studied adult education. And I was actually not a facilitator for a very long time. I stayed in Administration, and I worked my way up to being a site manager for a computer training firm that concentrated only on corporate. And about 12 years ago, I walked away from corporate, and started my own business. And that was the first time I ever facilitated full time. So it was pretty scary, and exciting.Leanne: So you came from an admin background and then to managing client training in organisations, do you think that helped you when you became a facilitator?Nikki: Oh absolutelyLeanne: In what way?Nikki: I think it’s because I focus primarily on leadership workshops and I have been a manager for many years. Therefore I have a really good understanding of a lot of the issues, and the challenges leaders face in the workplace. And most of those challenges don’t vary from industry to industry. So I can relate. I'm very empathetic and compassionate for all the leaders I work with now as a coach and a facilitator in their area of leadership. Because there probably isn't a challenge that they're having that I haven't had myself in real life, where I tripped and stumbled as well.Leanne: I guess it helps because you can talk the language when it comes to feeding back information to clients about what's going on in the training environment too. And then provide feedback on what they can do to continue building on a person’s ability after you’ve left.Nikki: I think that's what good adult education is all about; sustainability, making sure that things are handed over in a manner that is easy for the individual to contextualise back in the workplace. For them to be out and go back and know “I can do this” and “I might probably trip and stumble little bit”. But I was warned I was going to trip and stumble, but I want to do it bad enough that I'm motivated to push through.Leanne: Yeah, that's really good insight into embedding all those learning strategies. Any other tips on doing that? Because I think it's an area where companies struggle. You can go in with approach of…, oh we're going to run this workshop, and then we expect people to change instantly. But we know that's not the case. What do you recommend to a client?Nikki: The number one best way of getting a return on investment when it comes to adult education is ensuring that before the individual goes to whatever the learning is - a meeting occurs between them and their one up. A discussion occurs about the workshop objectives and what do you personally need to get out of this. And then a follow-up meeting. That is the number one way of getting a return on investment.Participants walk into my learning environment with all different expectations. Some purely for lunch. Let's get serious - unfortunately, that is true. A day off work and I should get a really nice lunch here.Others come in with no real idea, but just happy to be there. You know I’m a new people leader, and I just need anything you can give me. The ones that get the most out of it actually come in with very specific challenges. You can't remember everything from a one to even a three day workshop. You're only going to really remember what's relevant, and what you need.So if you come in without anything really in mind, you probably walk out going, “Wow that was really interesting and I met some nice people.” But none of the tools will have really stuck for you because there was nothing in it in the first place, unless a challenge through the workshop comes to mind, and then you start zeroing in on how you can fix that. But it's amazing how many people come into a workshop with no understanding of even what we're going to be covering. That one-on-one meeting with the boss before and after is important.Leanne: Okay, so let's just say that you do have participants in the workshop, and they've got no idea why they're there. As the facilitator, you expect there has been some sort of conversation. How then do you manage that and bring them into the learning journey?Nikki: I think that through activities and discussions you start getting an understanding of where they're at in people leadership, how much experience they've got, and the confidence level. And normally by that confidence level, you can probably guess the areas that they probably find challenging. It’s probably not even on their radar because they're avoiding it.Leanne: So you talked a lot about the participants pre-work. But I just want to talk about your preparation before a workshop. And I know in our work together, we'll have a workshop that starts at 10:00 in the morning and Nikki will show up at 7:00 in the morning to get the room ready. Is it sort of like a ritual that you've had over the course of your time in this environment - that it's really important to prepare?Nikki: I like at least an hour and a half, and if I have more, I’ll take as much as I can get. I think it's really important to be very familiar with your environment, with the technology that's available, and also the way in which you want the room set out. The way in which the room set out, the music that you've got playing all set a tone for when they walk in the door, and that also includes your own preparation. I am a huge prepper. People ay to me all the time, “Oh I just wing it.” That might work for them but I would never ever do that. I just can’t.I do a lot of preparation even if I'm running the same program over and over again. And the room and making sure that it set up the way you need it be, to work the participants is really important. You've got to be thinking ahead of the types of activities you’re doing, type of space that you've got available, and be able to utilise everything that you can; the best way you can. That might be walking in and rearranging the whole room that someone has so kindly set up for you - because we thought there were going to be 16 participants and now we find out that there's going to be 12. It's nice that it's cozy and intimate if we have smaller numbers. But it also it's important that they're comfortable if there are large numbers, and there's always enough space for everybody. A lot of the organisations I work for are very male dominated. Girls/women I find don't find it too hard being a bit more squashed in; where the guys like a little bit more space.Leanne: You did mention earlier that some people are there just for the catering. I find that really interesting. A lot of the feedback sheets we get back, if the workshop has delivered the comments are about the catering. Is there an ultimate menu for workshops?Nikki: It's like air-conditioning. It'll never be perfect for everybody! And most organisations these days don't even do catering. Most people bring their own when it's in-house. So if people are lucky enough to actually get the company to provide the catering it’s normally a nice lunch because it's a free lunch.Leanne: The only feedback I have about that is I made the mistake once of serving cakes and sweet food at morning tea and hot savoury items that afternoon. And I didn't really hear the end of it! So switch those two around they will love the catering.Okay, so let's talk about energy. And a lot of workshop you facilitate run up to five day workshops. I’ve never done anything like that. Even after one day it can be pretty exhausting. How do you keep your participants moving along over the course of five days?Nikki: The course design is really important in regards to energy levels. As you know, I like to have them up and moving around approximately every 20 minutes to 30 minutes because I think that most of the people I work with don't actually sit at desks full-time. So they like sitting down but they're not used to it, and find it really hard to stay focused. If you have them moving around to doing activities or even just standing, it can make a huge, huge difference to the energy levels.For me personally, I'm pretty passionate about what I do. So I think it's important to shut the outside world off. You know everyone has things going on outside the learning environment. And I think it's really important as a facilitator that we're able to just to shut down turn our mobile phones off, as well as participants. Create that environment that's going to be best for them to get something out of the program. I am naturally pretty high energy.Leanne: I agree with that!Nikki: I do know a lot of people that are extreme introverts that do what I do, and they really work themselves up. That might be with coffee or a sugar hit first thing in the morning, a Coca-Cola, or something to just get themselves fired up. I don't need that. I just drink green tea. You don't need me in a learning environment with coffee. I’d be climbing the walls.Leanne: That's a really sort of great lead into a facilitation, and getting up in front of a room. Was that something that came naturally to you; public speaking, presenting in public?Nikki: No, I was petrified of presenting in public. Physically used to throw up.Leanne I think our listeners are grateful that you've said that. Because people that I've spoken to don't really have the confidence, and think that it's something that they can’t overcome. Obviously, you're one example of someone that's overcome it. What were the steps you took - how did you actually work your way up to becoming a facilitator you are today?Nikki: My father was very insistent that all of his children speak in public. He felt that if you had the confidence to speak publicly, you'd have the confidence to do anything you want in life. It wasn’t really about necessarily publicly speaking, and the skills about it. It was about having the confidence. Because if you look at what is the word people's biggest fear in the world, it's public speaking; next to spiders, and heights I believe.I did join the debating team, and I made a complete idiot of myself every single time I got up; that’s if I got up. Most of the time I was down the girl's toilet heaving. And when I did get up, I would go into flight; fight; freeze. I would freeze, and make squeaking noises. So every time I ever decided to join the debating team, there was always this huge sigh. “Oh my goodness she's doing it again. We've got no chance to get to the finals this year.” I left school knowing I would never speak in public. It was absolutely physically impossible.Very soon after I got a job, and I was asked after a few months working there if I could do a presentation to the board - that I was to walk in, there would be some questions, I would answer them, and then hop out.I was really honest with my boss and said, “Look, I can’t do that, and this is the reason why…”. They made it really clear it wasn't negotiable. And dad at times was asking me, “How’s your job going?” I said, “I love it, but I'm leaving.” And he said, “Why?” And I said, “They want me to talk, stand up and talk to board members. We all know what's going to happen.” So I'm just going to resign now. And he said, “Oh look, if you’re going to resign then you might as well give it a red hot go.”I went in with my resignation in my back pocket thinking you know, maybe I could throw it over the mess I might make. I did a lot of nodding and shaking my head trying to answer their questions with yes and no answers. After a while, one of the board members just said, “Look, you're wasting our time. Do you want to leave?” I just shrugged. I was going to resign anyway. I gave it a shot, and I walked out. One of the board members came up to me in the afternoon and said to me, “Are you scared of public speaking?” I said, “Petrified.” And he said, “I can help you with it.” And I said, “All right, it's okay, I’m resigning.”Dad kept saying to me, “You know how long are you going to run from this?” And I was like forever sounds good. There are plenty of jobs around. I'm not worried. I’m really skilled.And the board member talked me out of resigning, and took me under his wing. Over the following months, I got more and more confident. And it's something, even to this day that if I do not get up and do public speaking at least once a month, I go through all the nerves all over again. It's still there. It's now it's about managing it. So when people talk to me about their fears of getting up in front of a group of people oh, I can relate very well. I'm very empathetic.Leanne: So what would be your advice to someone that is a first time facilitator or wants to make that transition from subject matter experts to sharing their knowledge?Nikki: The more you do it, the easier it gets. Everyone that first rides a bike will fall off. Every time anyone gets up to publicly speak, they're going to make mistakes. It’s about motivation. It's about wanting to do it bad enough that you got to put up with the trips, and the stumbles, and the scrapes, and the bruises.If you really want to do it, you just need to practice just like when you rode a bike for the very first time. And public speaking is the same.You do it often enough, you can walk away from it. You come back you might be a little bit wobbly, but you're find your feet a lot faster. So practice makes perfect. I had plenty of people that I used to watch. Either for my own professional development, or watching someone before hiring them. So I know what made a good facilitator.It’s about using every opportunity you get to speak in public. Most people that don't like it when they're offered to do it, will run a mile. I did it myself. So the idea of it is is feeling motivated enough to get good at it to throw yourself in every opportunity you get and jump on board. It's not something you can read about and go, “Okay, it'll be like reading a book on how to ride a bike.” And then thinking, “After I've read the book, I can go and jump on the bike and I'm not going to fall off.”Leanne: You just absolutely have a great presence when you're in a workshop. And you look across participants, and everyone's really listening on your every word. If you had to pick one unique skill or superpower that you bring to the role of facilitator, what do you think that is for you?Nikki: Well I'm going to actually ask you. You've watched me a few times facilitate, so can I ask you what you…What do you think my superpower is?Leanne: Ok this is my observation as a client. When you’ve been running a session for a couple of hours I'll just drop in at lunch; or at the end of the day. I’ll ask you how the course been going with your participants. And very quickly you can go around the room and talk about each participant - pointing out things like ‘That person's not engaged at the moment’; ‘This person's a little bit quiet’; ‘I think the three sitting here is probably not a good idea, I'm going to split them up tomorrow’.You know exactly how each participant in that room is feeling, thinking, and their level of engagement in the workshop. But not only that, you've got solutions on how you're going to fix that, and make it better for them.. I think that's an impressive thing I’ve found about your facilitation style - identifying what’s going on in that room to an amazing level of detail. Would you agree with that?Nikki: It's my responsibility to ensure I have engagement. These people need to walk away with particular skills. And they’re not going to walk away with everything. But they should be walking away with two or three things that they can feel comfortable enough to use back in the workplace tomorrow. It would be very poor of me not to understand where my participants are going. And there's certain activities that I do first up to get a little bit more of an understanding of them, and give them the opportunity to talk about what they want to talk that about. There are certain icebreakers that I like using due to the effect that you get a little bit more of an understanding of why people are here, why they are in front of you and how much experience they have.Leanne: You mentioned a couple of icebreakers that you use to let down their guard, find more information about them, reasons why they're in the room, levels of experience. Is there a particular icebreaker that's your go-to one to find that information out?Nikki: I like to line them up in order of how long they've been a people leader for. Make a little bit of fun, you can’t open your mouth when you do it. Make sure that those hand signals are kept nice and clean also. From that, get them to then go down the line and introduce themselves. Ask them ‘Who are you, what's your role around here, how long have you been doing people leader’? Then I get them to team up, pair up with those that are least experience with those that have got more experience, and talk about what's their number one leadership challenge. And that's where we we find out who came in with something on their mind, and those that are just there not sure even what they're there to learn. But I think all senses are on high alert in that first one hour of the workshop as a facilitator.You’re really watching, and observing, and listening even when you're getting them to do an activity - you're listening to who's being more dominant than somebody else in the activity, who's being supportive of each other in the activity, who's sitting there doing absolutely nothing and looking a little bit concerned. You know because at the end of the day, we're going to have introverts, we're going to have extroverts. And we don't want the introverts walked all over.So in that first the first hour, I use the DISC model and I normally within the first hour will be able to work out who is where on the DISC model. That also allows me then to know what's the best way of communicating with them and where their stretch places would be. So I consider how far I can stretch them before they get us feel a little bit uncomfortable because you want a little bit of a stretch, but we certainly don't want to break anyone. We want them to be supported.Leanne: How do you then manage then bring in people that might be more quiet or reserved? How do you bring them into the workshop, and engage them?Nikki: With Dominance, we normally find they’re quite vocal. Not all the time, but quite often. They also they want to share their experiences and their stories. It's about allowing them the space to. But also making at times drawing the line and at times saying, “You know I think you're working too hard. Jeff I've heard from you for the last four times. I think you might want to have a break now. You’re carrying the load for all these other people. Let's hear from someone that hasn't said anything yet.” And it's about being polite and respectful - but also with a bit of fun. There's a little bit of tongue in cheek in being able to manage those personalities.Leanne: We spoke about earlier, there are certain skills of a facilitator - preparing is really important for you and making sure you use all of your senses, to see what’s going on, and then listening in to create a good dynamic. Is there anything else that a facilitator really needs in their back pocket?Nikki: I was thinking about this on my drive in this afternoon, and there are so many. And for every facilitator you asked that question to, it'll be something different. Now I am extremely high energy, so I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I can be quite overwhelming if you're a real introvert, and it's working out who is who in your zoo. You then moderate yourself of what's appropriate for this learning environment.But by really being prepared with your material you then have the energy, and the headspace when you’re facilitating to change very quickly on a dime.If you have’t prepared and you are facilitating, and things aren’t going well, the energy levels aren’t right, or people are becoming argumentative. It's very hard for you to throw in other strategiesIf you’ve got the content in your head, you can be quite flexible. And you can introduce different strategies all the time because you know your content well enough that it happens no matter what. You can then, in your head, while delivering the content be thinking about other strategies, and things you've got to do. That was probably a really long winded.Leanne: Aha! I love it. Long winded is good. Nikki: Because if you were to get up, and say the same thing. Like for instance an induction. But I can imagine if you ran inductions you would get to the point where you would memorise it. You would actually be able to think about other things while doing it. And you will notice other things because you know the content so well. Your head doesn't have to be all in the content.You'll be noticing people leaning forward, or arms folded, or looking at the window, or having a chat with the person next to... You'll notice all of those things because you know you material so well.Leanne: Yeah that brings me into an interesting story. Nikki kindly asked me to co-facilitate a session last year and it was part of a leadership course. So I studied, and studied, and studied on this model. I'd been working at a TAFE for the last six years, and I walked into Nikki’s workshop, and I delivered this session like it was at a TAFE. And after the workshop, Nikki said to me ‘You’re training them, and you’re not facilitating”. And I didn’t understand what she meant. I thought that was what I was meant to do. I was meant to train them, and teach them in this model. Then you explained that training and facilitating are two different skill sets. Do you want to expand on that a bit more?Nikki: Yes, so when you’re training someone; in something, you can work out their current skill and knowledge and then you feel that gap in a very quite structured manner.When you facilitate, there’s more of an expectation of these people are coming in with this certain amount of experience, and knowledge, and skill already. They’ve already got a fair bit, and it's about really pulling out what they already have in their heads.And so you will have someone that's got a lot of experience. You'll have someone in your learning environment with 20, 30 years experiences, and then you'll have someone with none. It's about managing the dynamics of the group - that those people who have got the experience are able to share it, and give those who have got no experience the opportunity to share how they would use that, and have a feel about it, whether they could see themselves using it, and then filling the gaps.Leanne: All right, so we've spoken a lot about activities, and energy levels. Let's talk about staging an activity. Do you go through a specific process when you do that?Nikki: I'll give you an example. I've been working with a company recently with people who are people leaders that have actually been chosen to co-facilitate with me on a leadership program.We put them through some facilitation skills to prepare them to be shoulder to shoulder with me in a learning environment doing certain sections of the program. And interestingly, they always choose flip chart activities. And they go, “They look like the easiest. I’ll do these.”It never ceases to amaze me how much chaos can be created in the manner in which they set the activity up. I'll give you an example. When I get people to do a flip chart activity, I first off show them each of the flip charts; Then I say to them, “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up in four groups, and I'm going to give you one of these flip charts each. I'm going to get you to work on it for two minutes, or three minutes. And then after that, I will rotate your group to the next flip chart.”It's amazing that with these kind of facilitators they’ll start the commencement of the activity with, “We’re going to do an activity I'll get you all to stand up.”It never ceases to amaze me that when you get people to stand up, they automatically will start talking to the person next to them, wonder whether they meant to take a pen with them, or… And they don't even know the activity, but chaos has already being created.So it’s really simple things which are one of those things where we trip and stumble a lot. We'll throw at an instruction and everyone will go, “What did that mean, or what did she say about this, or what are we meant to be doing next?” And it will create this chaos, and you've got to bring them all back to the centre of the room, and then explain it again. And sometimes again.Leanne: So I guess you're saying prevention is better than cure here.Nikki: It isLeanne: Say, “Hey we’re going to do an activity. I'm going to explain it now.” Try and prevent them from standing.Nikki: I say that the moment they stand is the moment you will have them disengaged. They will suddenly need to go to the loo, get a cup of coffee, check they’re phone, be on their way to their activity. So it's best while they’re seated to give them as much information as you can. Then before they stand, let them know what's going to happen next. That's why I say “In a moment I'm going to get you to stand up, and I'll get you to work in groups; four groups. And each of the groups will be given a flip chat”… If you start the activity with, “We’re going to an activity I'll get you stand up.” The moment they stand up, it is so much more difficult to get them reengaged in finishing what instructions you need to do.Leanne: How do you manage preparing with flying, again keeping the energy levels, responding to e-mails, running a business on the road for most of the week? How do you do that?Nikki: You can't take yourself too seriously. When you work and live on the road, you've got to have a sense of humour because Murphy’s Law is just sitting there on your shoulder. You can have a whole week of what could ever go wrong, does go wrong. If you don't keep your sense of humour I think and if you take yourself too seriously you could end up being a very stressed, cranky, angry person.Leanne: How long has Corporate Learning Partners been operating?Nikki: About 13 years now.Leanne: Okay, and you mentioned that was the first time that you made into a full time facilitation role.Nikki: Yeah, so I went from managing training organisations, and walked out the door, and went into developing leadership programs, facilitating leadership programs.Leanne: So making that step from I guess full time employment to running your own business is a huge step. You have no idea how it's going to go.Nikki: Massive step.Leanne: Why did you make that step? What propelled you do that? Did you have any clients sort of on the books? Or you just thought you could do things better?Nikki: I actually felt that it was my natural next step. I'd been in the management area for a very long time. For those that are people leaders out there, you will hear know what I mean by you know, you get to a point where you go is this something that I want to continue doing. I got to a point where I was at the level of general management by the time I left. It was getting more and more paper orientated, not people - and I like being around people.So I thought, “Why not give it a go?” And it was a huge risk. I had no clients. I did have a very strong network of colleagues because I had for so many years worked with other facilitators I’d hired as contractors to do work for me. So I had a wonderful network, and an incredibly supportive network. There's a couple there that used to receive phone calls every night after I finish my day going, “I think this is wrong. And what do you would you do about that?” That network was absolutely crucial.Leanne: Looking back at starting a business, would you do anything a bit differently?Nikki: As mentioned before, you can't know everything when you take the leap of faith to do something. You've got a bit of knowledge about what you're doing. At the end of the day, I knew a lot about adult education, and I knew a lot about how to manage clients. I knew a lot about how you know, people would come to the training when I was a manager and say, “Look we think we need these, and this is the reason why”. I was already quite good at being able to interpret concerns, and put them into practical ways of moving forward.So it took a lot to the table from my experience. But you know registering businesses, organising GST etc when I had a mortgage and a kid in a private school. So you’re really juggling that. One moment I'm developing, the next moment I’m presenting, the next moment I’m invoicing then I'm having to follow up; juggling all of it. It was a huge learning curve. Yeah, so having a good accountant would be believe it or not right up there. And if I had to have a second one, it would be have a great network. Sometimes it's just nice to have a sounding board.Leanne: Will definitely put those two recommendations in our show notes for this episode. Where can people find you?Nikki: www.corporatelearningpartners.com.au has all the details. Plus a little bit about what we do, the tops companies we work for, and the work that we've done in the past.Leanne: Absolutely recommend Nikki, and her team. They do a stellar job in delivering anything that you've got.. So Nikki, thank you so much for coming on the ‘First Time Facilitator Podcast’. I've definitely learnt an awful lot to up my facilitation game. And I've already had some great feedback from you over the last year and a half. So thank you for that.Nikki: Thank you Leanne for the opportunity.
Episode 1: Just Rock It! Facilitation and training tips from leadership guru Sonia McDonald
This podcast is for those of you that are experts and want to share your knowledge and skills with others. In my experience, it can be difficult taking that first step to become a facilitator.Today’s guest, and our very first, Sonia McDonald, will share some amazing advice and some tips and tricks on facilitation and training.
Welcome to the first ever episode of the First Time Facilitator podcast.
Episode 1 First Time Facilitator podcast with Sonia McDonald
This podcast is for those of you that are experts and want to share your knowledge and skills with others. In my experience, it can be difficult taking that first step to become a facilitator.Today’s guest, and our very first, Sonia McDonald, will share some amazing advice and some tips and tricks on facilitation and training.Sonia was recently named in the top 250 influential women across the globe by Richtopia. She’s an entrepreneur, though leader, a keynote speaker, executive coach, board advisor, and author. She’s the CEO and founder of Leadership HQ and is launching her latest book ‘Just Rock It’ in February.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL FIND OUT ABOUT:
Sonia’s response when someone asked if she knew anything about leadership.
How she was unprepared for what was to come when founding Leadership HQ.
Her success expectation after she created the leadership blog.
An insightful piece of advice to people that need that extra push or courage to stand at the front of the room.
How she’s able to fill the room with immense energy while presenting.
Key skills you need to learn so as to engage people in a workshop.
Skills she’s improved over the years and how she did it.
How she’s able to communicate in different styles to different types of audiences.
Best way to embed learning after a workshop.
The biggest challenge in the leadership space.
Why you should read Sonia’s new book, 'Just Rock It', and the motivation behind writing it.
Best advice to a first time facilitator.
Her go-to icebreaker.
RESOURCES
Video: Your body language may shape who you are by Amy Cuddy
Websites: Leadership HQ and Sonia McDonald
Book: Just Rock It by Sonia McDonald
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Leanne: Hi I'm Leanne, and I live in Brisbane Australia. I've created this podcast to really help those of you who are experts - or look if you don't like that word, you’re pretty good at what you do, and now you wanna take that leap, and share your skills and knowledge with others. From my experience, I remember that it's difficult taking that first step to become a facilitator. So through this show, I'll be interviewing some amazing guests who will share their tips, tricks, and give you actionable advice. Also from time to time I’ll record some solo episodes that really hone in on specific training, and facilitation skills.Interviews and links that we talk about on the show can be found at firsttimefacilitator.com, and I’d love you to support the podcast by subscribing to it in iTunes. Now let's move on to our very first guest Sonia McDonald from Leadership HQ. She's an absolute power house. And I hope you feel inspired to take the leap into facilitation after hearing her story.Welcome to the show Sonia McDonald.Sonia: Hello lovely Leanne. How are you? I'm so honoured. Thank you so much for asking me.Leanne: It's an absolute pleasure. I’ve attended some of your workshops, and it's so true about the energy that you convey.Sonia: I am very passionate with what I do in the leadership space. Thank you very much for the lovely words.Leanne: I wanted to start with a bit about your story. And I’ve heard this one in of the workshops that you've run for us. You were working in HR roles overseas, and returned back to Australia. And you were given a start by someone who asked you if you knew a bit about leadership. What was your response to that?Sonia: My response was I know so much about leadership, and I faked it. I completely faked it. Look I wasn't faking that I could do brain surgery. However, I did have some confidence in my ability obviously with my background, and people, and culture in HR. However, I did have that belief in myself that I could definitely learn it to get myself up to space. So I did fake that I knew a lot in the interview.Leanne: I love that. How did you prepare with what was to come?Sonia: That's a great question. I think for me… I saw the opportunity was going be a great opportunity. I was on the train travelling home to the Gold Coast and I thought, “Okay, what's my plan?” And I just went online and I bought every single book I could on Amazon on leadership. And I just read, and I researched, and I read blogs, and I read articles.And I just kind of put my hands on everything that I could read, and watch, and research. And I also think the thing that also made a big difference is that I made sure that I put it into practice, and learnt by doing. I also started writing a blog called ‘Leadership HQ’ to help me learn. So I thought all it really helped me learn not only by doing that by writing about my learnings, and my insights.Leanne: Yeah, I’ve heard that quite a bit. A lot of people say that the best way to learn a new skill is teach someone else. So with your leadership blog did you have any idea it was going to turn into what it is today?Sonia: No, no, not in a million years. If you had said to me, ‘If we had a time machine. Sonia, we're going to go ten years in the future and this is where you’ll be…” I would have said “No, you're on some sort of drug.” It’s amazing how the world works. I feel so blessed that this is what I'm doing today.Leanne: That’s so great. And look I work with colleagues and sit in workshops with them and hear them say, ‘Oh! I could have run that workshop.” But they never actually take that step, and stand in front of a classroom. I know that’s a bit daunting. What is your advice to people who have the knowledge, but need a bit of a push to get up to the front of the room? What would you say to them?Sonia: Oh gosh! I mean I suppose this is what leadership is about. I think leadership is sometimes about doing things that make you feel uncomfortable, that take you out of that comfort zone - where you have the courage to just give it a go. And also leadership for me is about making a difference. I do that through developing and encouraging others. So I get a lot of people that say to me that they would really love to be able to stand up in front of a room, and be out to do I’m doing, or be able to public speaking, or run workshops. I think the only way you can do it - is do it.I suppose it helps if you watch by others, and figure out what works for you, what doesn't work for you. Also maybe even look online, or watch videos on YouTube, or TED talks. By having the courage to stand up and do it, and even going go to things like Toast Masters. And you know you and I spoke at that Disrupt HR, and you just rocked it. I was like sitting there going, “Oh my gosh! I mean Leanne you just rocked it.” And it takes a lot of courage to get up there.I imagine how it's going to feel when I get up onstage, and or I've stood up in front of that room, or I've presented some knowledge, or some insights; How I'm going to feel that I could make a difference, or help someone else in that room.It’s focusing on the feeling after you do it. And go you know what? I did it. I had the courage to do it. And also learning from it. I mean I remember the first couple of times I started presenting and speaking on stage, and doing workshops. Oh my gosh! There was so many these things I stopped. But it was so good for me to stuff up because I thought, “Well this is what I’ll do differently next time.” And I didn’t let the stuff-ups stop me because it is the best feeling, Leanne. I mean Leanne how did you feel after you…?Leanne: Yeah, it's such an amazing feeling. I sort of likened it to… I used to play netball quite competitively when I was a bit younger - that adrenaline that you get before a big match. It was the same feeling, and I hadn't had that feeling in quite a while. Yeah obviously time, blood, sweat, and tears went into that Disrupt HR speech. And afterwards, all the speakers are floating, and high five-ing, and I felt that feeling for days. It was great- definitely worth it.Sonia: Yeah, it is. Isn’t it?Leanne: Just do it, absolutely. So I guess what you're talking about in terms of attitude and having that confidence to be a leader - well that's what I learnt when I went to one of your breakfast events last year; the Leadership Attitude workshop. And I remember walking into the room. It was about 7:00 in the morning. Looking around - well, no one has been caffeinated yet. It's pretty quiet.When we left an hour an a half later, the volume of that room was amplified, everyone was talking to each other, there was really great energy in the room. And I think that reflects on your style of presenting and providing that energy. How did you learn to do that? Is this something that is just Sonia? Or, did you have to learn that skill?Sonia: I’d have to say maybe a little bit of both. It was more around again trial and error and putting myself out there, and kind of getting a sense around what worked for me in terms of my style. I think it is because I'm so passionate about this space - that for me to be that authentic self when I’m presenting and speaking it… it’s because I'm so passionate about it, I let it come out.And I’m not afraid to be vulnerable, and to kind of make a fool of myself if I need to help inspire others to get that sense of purpose and passion within themselves. So I think it's a combination. I think it was much of our successes and you know lots of failures to find my style.Leanne: Now I’d like to delve into some information on how to help others become facilitator. In your observation, what do you think the core skills are that someone needs to learn to be good at engaging people in a workshop?Sonia: I think you've got to put your ego aside. Like put it at the front door when you walk into a room. It's not about you. It's about them, and their experience. Practice is really important.. When I was facilitate all workshops understanding what the client wants, what the audience wants in terms of action - what do you want them to walk away with? How do you want them to feel, or how do you want to make them feel? What sort of key things do you want them to take away? It's important that you think about the end goal and what outcomes you're wanting to achieve; but not bombard them with too much information - think about the top five things you want them to walk away with. Obviously energy is really important; the energy that you bring to the group.Also think about your audience. For example, I’ll adjust my facilitation style to say a group of emerging leaders versus an executive leadership team or a CEO.Also I'm very visual. So for me, it's making sure that I blend anything that I facilitate. I bring in lots of a lot of visual pictures, particularly if I show slides.. I won’t stand in front of them and go blah, blah, blah, blah. Thanks very much, okay bye.I’ll share a couple of slides, share a couple of key points and ask, “Okay, how does everyone feel about that? Let's talk about that talk to the person next to you. Let's share those insights”. In this way, they are thinking about what I've said and what it means to them.So I think those sort of things work really well. Also not being afraid. I think some people in times when they facilitate they are, “What if I say something stupid, or what happens if someone disagrees with me?” Gosh, that's happened to me.Leanne: Oh has it? What did you do?Sonia: I just hid under the table. I’m not kidding; oh!Leanne: I think that is a huge fear.Sonia: Yeah look I always thank people like oh wow okay thank you, that's a really interesting insight - tell me why, let's talk about that. And again, it’s ego out to the door. It's not about me, it's about them.It's about you being the facilitator and saying, “Okay, all right. Let's talk about this. What's the rest of the group think about this?" And sometimes I've even been in workshops or I’ve facilitated, or when you’re running a type of team-building or high performance team, where the group dynamics, or teams disagree.Sometimes people have become quite aggressive and you have to say, “Hey look, let's not go down that road. It might not be taking us in the direction we want to go. Let’s park it and talk about it another time.”That's where the facilitator is really important. You're checking in with the energy of the group, and you're watching body language. So with facilitation there's more to just getting up in front of people, and showing slides, or talking, or sharing insights of learnings.It takes so much out of you because you've also got to be listening to the group, but also looking at the body language of the group. If I feel that the group, or the energy is feeling a little bit low, or this is getting a little bit too much, I'll say, “Guys let's take a 5-minute brain break. Let's go out, let's stretch. So reading the energy, and the body language of the group is really important too.Leanne: I mean that's really great, and really comprehensive. I’m just curious about the picking up on the dynamics of the group. Would you say that something that you've improved at over the years?Sonia: I think that's where you just need to be really present. So when you are presenting, you’re also reading the room (and not sitting there thinking “I don't know what to make for dinner tonight”). If you are noticing something you’re not afraid to say “Mary, or Jim. I've noticed that your energy is changing. Is there something that you'd like to share?” It could be even in the break, you might go up to someone and say, “I have noticed something with your body language - is everything okay? Because nine out of ten people say, “Hi thanks for asking me - yes, I wasn't comfortable with this, or I wouldn't mind sharing this next. Is that okay?” Yeah of course, I thought I'd check in with you.Leanne: Yeah this is something I experienced something last year. You're absolutely right. It's all about checking in, taking breaks, and just making sure they’re comfortable and that you can bring it together. Because one person can have a huge impact on the group dynamics.Sonia: Yeah that's a really good learning for you as well. So thanks for sharing that.Leanne: You mentioned before that you run sessions for a diverse audience. Sometimes you’re delivering workshops for teenagers, but equally you can feel very comfortable in boardrooms. So what is it about your communication that changes - what do you pitch differently?Sonia: That's a really good question. Last week, when I walked into a room with over 200 teenagers, I walked into the room with a lot of energy. I was wearing jeans, and a suit jacket because I wanted to relate to them. I didn't want to go in there too corporate. I watched how I was presenting myself. Because I have a teenage daughter I also adjusted my language slightly. It was really important for that I connected with the group.I was also probably be a little bit more relaxed with a group of 200 teenagers. I was running up and down the room. First is I'm probably a little less formal. I did use the word friggin’. They were looking at me going, “I think you friggin’ understand this.”. They all just laughed. I was able to laugh, and make a joke about my slide - I put a picture up of myself when I was 15 with like pants, and big blue glasses.So I try to see how I could connect with them. So then they would feel comfortable that, “Oh my gosh! This is the CEO of Leadership HQ talking. But if I was working with an executive leadership teamI probably wouldn't put a picture of myself, and I probably wouldn't go, “Hey, how are you all friggin’ going today” I would be more polished and structured while still being my authentic self. So I do have a style which I know you've seen it. So I think you do need adjust your style depending on the audience. I think that's really important.Leanne: So, you see people enjoying a workshop and they have learnt all this great information and leadership tools. Then, when you check in a couple weeks later, and they’re not implementing them. What's the right way to embed learnings following a workshop?Sonia: Wow that is… Isn’t that the zillion dollar question? I always say to groups, “What do you really want to get out today? Why is today important?” And at the end of the workshop I also ask “What are three things you've learnt today? What are three things that you could change? What would happen if you did change these three things, and what would happen if you didn't change these three things?”I always follow up especially if I'm doing a leadership program, or where I’m spending a day with the team. I always follow up and say to the stakeholders, “Look can you send these article on, or can you send this video to the participants.”Even in between workshop program when I roll out 12 month leadership programs, I always keep the learnings front of mind. I email participants and ask, “Okay, tell me what did you get from that. Tell me what you've done differently, what actions have you implemented, what successes have you had?”. Let's share that with the group.If it's front of mind and the more seriously you take your self-development, the more serious others are going to take you. I find the coaching really transformational because we’re meeting with them once a month. And each month, we're having a conversations, they’re going off to put it into action. We send them their goals or what they need to do. Like to focus on here’s an article you could read, here’s some resources on a platform you could look at.They're actually seeing the change because they're actually focused on it, and they're committed to it, and they want to do it. And that takes champions. It takes people like yourself or myself to go out there and keep them engaged. Does that make sense?Leanne: Oh, absolutely. It’s completely right in terms of just having that frequent kind of touch point, but also the accountability. I think all of us kind of need someone to be accountable to - there's so much else going on in life and at work. It’s hard to keep focused on some of these things.Sonia: This is why when I do any sort of leadership program, or coaching, it's about having the managers involved. I say to them, “Can you please have conversations with your people around what they're learning, and what they got out of it.” You can also have an accountability buddy, someone on the program that you meet once a month.Leanne: Yeah, really good tactical advice about the accountability buddy and the importance of the line manager and their involvement.I'd like to quickly to segue on to leadership, and I this is probably a really open question. But what do you think the biggest challenge is in the leadership space? What are you finding?Sonia: This is what I am out there pretty much standing on top of the mountain screaming about; you know trying to influence others and inspire others. Leadership isn't about a role title - it’s an attitude, mindset, and behaviours. The other thing that I'm seeing I suppose it that there’s so much going on in the world today. We're kind of looking at leaders to have more resilience, and being more agile, and being more vulnerable; and we need more great examples of leadership.I’m seeing people having more discussions around not willing to accept poor behaviour, and poor leadership, and I'm wanting more. I'm wanting stronger leaders out there. I’m wanting to see more examples, more leaders that we can follow, more leaders we can learn from, or more leaders we can see as showing the way that what makes a great leader. What I'm finding is a lot of people are wanting not only to step-up and be that great leader, but they're looking for more great leaders as examples.Leanne: When you ask, “Who are the famous leaders in the world?” We always sort of go to the Nelson Mandela’s, Oprah’s and the Mother Theresa’s where leadership seems unattainable. So it's really good that we can identify people around us who can aspire to.Sonia: Yeah, it is. It's just that's what I think sometimes because we make leadership bigger than what it is because of those examples. You know we kind of go, “Oh man, we can never amount to that.” Well leadership is fundamentally about making a difference, and helping each other shine.Leanne: We do and that leads me on to the question of the premise behind your latest book; ‘Just RockIt’. What's it about?Sonia: ‘Just RockIt’ is all about helping everyone step up and stand tall and go for what they really want. Whether it's to be that best version of you; to a great leader; to start a business; to step up in your career…Whatever you want to do in terms of taking on the world.The last decade I’ve been working in the space. And you know how passionate I am about mental health especially the younger leaders, future leaders. We’re still afraid to put ourselves out there.I want people to start to go ‘You know want? I only have this one life. I don't want to get to that day where I look back on my life; and didn’t lead the life I wanted to lead”. I want people to get out there and work it, and help others work it as well. I want help you be the best you can be as well.Leanne: That is such a great message. I'll definitely get a copy and I'll be at your launch!Sonia: Oh thanks!Leanne: Yeah, I do hear people say things like “Oh I can’t do that”. They have limiting beliefs. And I say “Yes, you can. You can absolutely do it.”Sonia: I don't want to hear "I'll try/I should have/I could have". I always say, “If I can do it, you can too.” I started a company from a blog, and I came back to Australia as a full-time mother with only 2,000 dollars in the bank. And I had to move back in with my parents, and I was like oh boy.And I'm not saying that I dance on rainbows every day. We're all human. I definitely have my ups and downs, and my knocks. However, I focus on what makes me rock.I focus on how I can make my life rock, and help others rock it. One of the chapters in my book is not to give it crap. And it's… you know, I know how it's difficult. And some days I go, “Oh my gosh! I do give a crap about that.”But it's about caring about what, or giving a crap about what really matters to you, and only focusing on that - focus on what makes you beautiful and unique.Leanne: That’s lovely. I couldn't have said it any better myself. So, what's the best advice that you could offer to someone; to a first time facilitator?Sonia: Other than the fact that it’s awesome that you doing this, I would just say, “Think of the end in mind, and think about what outcomes, or think about the audience and what do you think they’ll need. So think about what outcomes or key messages you wanna get across to the great, and then work backwards.When I first started, I would get the flip chart out and think, “Okay, this is what I want them to walk away with" and then I work backwards and then I'd start to map it out, like chapters of a book. What do you want each component of the workshop to entail? What key messages, what sort of learnings can you bring to the group, or to the workshop? What sort of methods could you use? Like videos, brainstorming. What sort of creative stuff could you bring in?I always say that when you're a first time facilitator to not be afraid of being creative. Bring in play-doh, big coloured pencils, crayons, or stickers, or paper. Think about thing that can bring out the creativity in the room. Begin with the end in mind and then work backwards.Leanne: Recently I was looking through some old workshops notes I presented a few years ago and reading through my facilitator notes. I had even written down my own name (like hello, my name is Leanne), c’mon! My notes were written to a tee. It’s really funny looking back and comparing it to what I do now, today I don’t script the detail. I know what the idea is, but it's really about creating that interaction. So you definitely have to start from somewhere. And you're right, it's about the audience. What's your go-to icebreaker?Sonia: A go to icebreaker? Look there’s so many different icebreakers. There's lots of different things I bring - I’ve got an activity or a nuclear bomb exercise which is quite fun, and quite funny, we use body language to decode a code. I also love to get people up and I say, “Okay, brainstorm. What are your top three strengths? What are your three passions? I call it the strengths sharing super-fast session. I think we did that in Leadership Attitude which you came to the last year.Leanne: Yeah, that was really fun. Yeah everyone was buzzing and it's so positive people can't wait to share their strengths. It's a good one.Sonia: Yeah, it is a good one. There’s also these great websites where you can pick up different resources cards. I'll put the cards at the table, and go, “Choose a card, or a quote, or a word, that resonates to you. Now let's go out go and talk to people around the room Why did you pick that card?Leanne: Sonia you absolutely rock. Thank you so much for all of you insights on this interview. I've learned a lot and I hope our audience has as well. Finally, where can people find you?Sonia: Where can they find me? They can find me on social media. You know I'm pretty active on that - LinkedIn or Facebook - also leadershiphq.com.au, or soniamcdonald.com.au as well.Leanne: Fantastic! Thank you so much for joining us on ‘First TimeFacilitator’.Sonia: Oh, you rock. Thank you so much.