First Time Facilitator podcast transcript with Joshua John (Episode 28)
This is a transcript of Episode 28 of the First Time Facilitator podcast, with Joshua John.
Leanne: I'd like to welcome to the First Time Facilitator podcast, my former colleague and good mate, Joshua John.
Joshua: Good morning, Leanne.
Leanne: Welcome to the show. Thanks for your time. It's great being in beautiful Broome.
Joshua: I'm glad to have you back for a short holiday back in Broome.
Leanne: Now, Josh, I'd like to start off with you sharing with the audience what you currently do and what you did in your past which enabled you to be in the role that you're in today.
Joshua: At the moment, I'm working at North Regional TAFE. I'm a literacy and numeracy lecturer. I work across a range of industries. That's my daytime job. I've just recently, this year, started an events business called Rise Entertainment and that's mainly around event managing, emceeing, and DJing. In 2007, I was holidaying across in Broome, as a lot of the stories always are, and I was out on a remote community and met with their school principal. I heard there was a job going, working in the school as a tutor and I put my hand up and he gave me a call back. That was my entry into the Kimberley.
From there, that was back in 2007, I've worked communities, in the towns, and all over the shop.
Leanne: That first foray into tutoring, prior to that, what role were you doing? Did you have the education backing to become a tutor or you just knew a lot about the industry, what was going on, a bit about literacy and numeracy at the time that enabled you to make that transition?
Joshua: I was doing some volunteer tutoring in Brisbane just after uni, just to get my experience up once I finished my arts degree. Surprise, surprise there, the offers weren't coming in thick and fast for a Bachelor of Arts in Brisbane with possibly not the best results. I was just volunteering, doing some tutoring for high school students. Then I moved to Darwin where I was just temping. Temping in different offices doing office work. I just found that there were just-- A lot more doors were opening, being in a more regional area, moving from Brisbane to Darwin.
Then I knew that a possible move was also going to happen, moving from Darwin to a more regional center. Like I said, that did happen but by chance, being on holiday in Broome and that's how I fell into education. I then started my grad dip in education to become a qualified teacher as I was working in the school. That's how I got, formally, into education. Then after that, I have moved into the TAFE system, into more training.
Leanne: The interesting thing about this show is it's called First Time Facilitator and facilitation is really about getting the experience in the room, getting people to share that knowledge and training a unique skill set because you're actually there to pass on information. It appears to be more structured, but I know that in the Kimberley and especially working in communities, things don't always go to plan. I'd love you to tell us any stories or some challenges or opportunities you've had while working remotely. What you've had to do a bit differently and the cohort that you're training.
Joshua: It's the more remote you get, the-- You have a lot more freedom to do what you want to do because people aren't watching over your shoulder, so you have a lot more freedom to get into what the clients demand or what works well for the client, rather than going out there and running off-the-shelf product. You can go into a community or with a different group and, working overtime, work out what their needs are and really adapt and modify a program that suits them.
Probably the best example of this was, I was working at a local cattle station, doing some literacy and numeracy work, and then that evolved from essentially the literacy and numeracy tuition into leadership skills and management skills. The station themselves really keen to get the station workers skilled up and exposed to some of these ideas that you might get if you walk into a business course or a management course. I was bringing those out to this remote station and delivering it to these station guys. It was-- Like I said, I had a few years to develop a program which looks completely different at the end from at the start.
It was interesting, they'd come in the morning. First class was at six o'clock in the morning, that'd be the first group. The second group would come in from doing the station work, they'd come in covered in dust and blood and all this stuff and we'd get stuck into it. They were quite keen because obviously, they got to sit in an air-conditioned room for a bit rather than fighting cattle. We went on with a lot of different concepts which wasn't my mandate going in, but that's what I'd work with the group. These station managers were keen to see, saw the progress, their staff enjoyed it, and they just kept on evolving from there,, and a lot of freedom and opportunities to do that.
Leanne: Fantastic. With these guys on the cattle station, guys and girls, I should say, what's interesting sometimes when I have workshops with people that are used to being out on the floor or being active during the day, they actually struggle when they're sitting in a classroom. They're not used to the lack of movement. What kind of activities or-- How did you actually-- You talk about tailoring your content to suit this type of audience, did you play any games? What kind of things did you do with these students to keep them engaged and motivated?
Joshua: That's right. Absolutely, lack of movement's an issue. We have it here with a lot of trades guys. They come into the classroom and then-- It's difficult. What happens is, the facilitator or the lecturer is on their feet. They're walking from the computer to the whiteboard, they're walking around the room and it's all the students, essentially, who are sitting in their seat. As that facilitator, you don't actually realize that you're moving around, so your energy levels are staying up, the blood is flowing in your body. For the people sitting down, that's right, their energy levels are going to go down, so I ensure that I place simple things just to get them to move.
One of the simple ones I do a bit is, rather than handing out maybe the worksheet or something like that and walk around to them, I'll leave them at the front say, "Okay, when you're ready, go up and get that worksheet." It's not because I'm lazy, it's more just to get them walking and moving, and they don't really realize that. You have to keep on doing it otherwise, that's right, people start to nod off, regardless. Everyone knows if you sit down through a three-hour lecture, it's really hard to keep it going, so you have to incorporate movement.
Absolutely, playing team building activities where people are on their feet and working things out together, that's definitely where I-- This type of training programs I like to design because if you're training someone who's in a certain vocation-- If you're training someone whose job is not to sit down and essentially do office work, if you're training someone who's on their feet, then it's good to train them doing those type of tasks. I've designed a few activities where people are on their feet working in a team environment and, essentially, team-based problem solving and really getting into communication.
One of the most important things across every industry is that ability to communicate. Where my training ended up really revolving around was communication and teamwork. Now, with the skills, we're able to run these activities in the classroom. I designed them to be hard and people would fail, then we'd reflect on it, discuss what went wrong and then we'd run it through again and saying, "These are the skills we need to develop." Have a bit of a laugh along the way in a space where people aren't being judged and they're not being stressed out about stuffing something up or obviously getting injured on the job.
Having that classroom is that place where no negative talking and if someone can't do something, that's okay. We're all working together and we're all, obviously, always learning and trying to get better.
Leanne: Fantastic. Did you find that you have to do a bit of rebranding of the classroom? Some people associate a classroom with school. The way schooling's taught, it's very structured and there's right and wrong answers and you must follow this script. When you go in there and you're being flexible, you're getting people up and moving, is that something that you do to move away from the connotation of, this isn't school, this is an adult learning environment?
Joshua: Absolutely. If you walk into a classroom, or a setting, and you hand out, essentially, assessments or workbooks and it's all very literally black and white on the page, people, they get taken back to possibly negative times when they were at school. They would switch off so you've really going to shake that up at the start. The first activities, I ensure you're not asking them to write anything down, you're asking them to engage in the classroom. The first thing I'll always try and do is get everyone to speak, which I know it sounds a bit daunting for some people training, saying, "Oh, it's really difficult to get my students to speak."
It's difficult because they're used to not speaking so they're not going to start halfway through the week or something like that. You need to break that straightaway. The method to do that is, allow them to speak about something that they're not having to rely on their knowledge about the subject and being found out that they're not an expert. I have activities based around like, "Let's have a look at the difference between these two pitches. Circle the difference," and then we'll go around, "Okay, everyone has to say one thing which is different." Everyone can point and say, "Oh, look. This object is in this first picture but it's not in the second."
Just by something as simple as that, the individual has engaged, they've broken that-- No one's laughed at them, they haven't got it wrong. From that, that's the tempo of the class and everyone's keen to go along like that. In saying that, you've got to be careful to ensure that the first person you ask to speak is that individual who's showing a bit more confidence. You're not going to show that-- The kid at the back of the room who's trying to shy away, they'll be last.
What that individual will see is, every other person in the class has spoken, no one's laughed. It gets to their turn, they're able to say something and it's more part of that desire to be part of the group, that no individual is then going to go against it and not speak, that they're like, "Okay, everyone's doing it. I'm going to be part of the group. There's no repercussions." They're engaged, and then from there, the classroom environment is working well.
Leanne: Wow. I really liked you talking about creating a safe environment where everyone feels like it's okay to speak up. I like that you mentioned tempo as well. It's the first time someone on this podcast has mentioned tempo. A lot of facilitation and training is really about, how do you mix that up? At the beginning, you're setting a nice, safe tempo, but there'll be times where you're putting people and challenging people, increasing that rhythm then bringing it back when you reflect, so I like that you brought that into it.
I also want to touch on your time, I think it was in Darwin or was it in Brisbane, when you were doing stand-up comedy. Can you please tell us a bit about that experience? Why did you start doing that and what did you learn from it?
Joshua: It's a very short-lived career of stand-up, but I do enjoy-- I grew up performing on stage. I grew up playing musical instruments, my mother's a musician. From a very early age, I was just on stage tapping a drum or something behind a group of people which you just get so used to it being on stage.
Leanne: Josh loves the microphone.
Joshua: Yes, I don't shy away from it. It's something that's just always been there. Then in school, my eldest brother, when I was in year 8, he was in year 12, he actually wrote the school musical. I just always found myself performing on stage to some extent. I entered a comedy competition, RAW Comedy, in Darwin. Then I was the finalist there, so I traveled to the Melbourne comedy show and performed there. That was probably the biggest performance I've done inside of an audience.
One of the interesting takeaways from that was, right before I went on stage, as I was sitting, essentially, behind the curtain as they're introducing me, I just remember thinking of-- completely forgotten my first line. My mind went blank, and I was like-- In those situations, it's just good to stay calm because that's how the body works. I knew I delivered these lines before, I was well prepared, but it was a massive audience, there was camera crews, et cetera. Mind went blank.
The takeaway there is, that's how the mind works before you do something new, before you get on stage. Even for myself who’s someone who's been on stage a lot, I still get nervous. Particularly when it's something I'm doing for the first time, I still get those nerves and jitters. Maybe the difference is I, not embrace them, but I put up with them and know that's part of the gig and you go through with it.
That would be my advice to people who are presenting for the first time. If you're feeling nervous, well, everyone feels nervous. It's only when you're doing the same gig or the same facilitation to the same clientèle group after about three times, you'll realize, "Oh," then the body just starts to relax and you don't get that heightened state of awareness before, you don't get that adrenalin shot before. Like I said, if I do a different type of gig, then yes, I'll be nervous before I go on stage. It's something I think is always going to happen to individuals. Don't let that be a barrier for you to think you're not cut out for being a facilitator. I'd be surprised if there was an individual who didn't feel like that. It's the case for most people.
Leanne: Yes, I agree. It is the case. I thought it would be easy as well and that every time, I still get nervous. I have have spoken to facilitators and trainers on this podcast that have been doing it for 20 to 30 years and the second that you change up the content, it always comes back. Then what drives you to appear on stages or appear in front of workshop rooms and teach people?
Joshua: It's one of those things most related to my emcee work. Some people say, "You’re emceeing, you like to be on stage, you like to have that microphone." The real skill of a good facilitator or an emcee is someone who can get the event rolling and functioning well. Often that means doing less on the mic and not being up there to listen to your own voice, it's about being effective in your timing and what you're saying, and the tempo of the night. While it's counterintuitive, while I don’t mind being on stage, that's not the draw. The draw for me is the excitement in facilitating, is getting the event rolling well.
Nothing is more annoying or frustrating as seeing a facilitator or an emcee who's up there, who likes the sound of their own voice and they're showboating around. That turns everyone off instinctively. The skill of a real facilitator or an emcee is to be able to make it seem natural for the audience and make the whole event fluid. A lot of the time that's not spending time on the mic but actually getting other people up there and kicking things along, keeping that pace going.
Leanne: Fantastic. Let's talk about emceeing an event. What kind of prep work do you do prior to that night, that big day?
Joshua: The number one thing you can't go without is having a list of the names and checking you can pronounce them correctly. As I said before, often you can go up and then everything just disappears out of your mind. That's just the nerves kicking in and that's when you'll forget the individual's name or their position. I always have a list of the key people and in a really simple running list. From there, it's just a bit of adlibbing, but essentially, you're able to refer what's coming up next and what needs to be said at that point in time.
Just having those. Obviously, you can't stand up and read a list of notes, so your notes are very simple, and you're able to get those key points across. Then the rest is just adlibbing on the night.
Leanne: You've got an uncanny talent. You're very lucky that you can actually I have never [unintelligible 00:17:55] around you, but you can bring in these jokes just in the right moment, at the right time. Where does that come from? Is that just something that Josh has in his personality or did you have these jokes in the back your mind before you got on stage? Where does it come from?
Joshua: Humor is an interesting one. Like I said before, it's good to be prepared, possibly with a few jokes, but nothing would be set in stone where it's like, "Oh, at this point, I'm going to say this gag." A lot of the time I'll skip over them. You need some content, it's not all just ad-libbed, you need some content there but it's all about reading the room. Humor sometimes, like I said, it can seem very lame if an individual's up there and and they're telling a joke that they think is funny. If the room's not ready for that or it's not the right point, you need to restrict the humor.
In other times, that's right. You can just feel the audience. It's just building and everyone's listening to every word you say, so then it's a lot easier to drop a little word in there or a look or a glance which is funny, but that's only because at that stage, at that point of the night, that works. You need to be-- Like I said, I've definitely skipped over jokes or things I've written out just because it just wasn't the right time. It's about reading the room and just doing what's right at the right time.
Leanne: Excellent. Let's skip and go back to the remote training environment. I'd love to hear what you pack, what you find is essential when you're training people in a remote area. What do you put in your car?
Joshua: Some of the most important things I take out, it would be a-- You've obviously got to think about how many people you're training, but usually with me, it's around the 10 mark so it's not a massive audience. Obviously, if it was bigger, I’d have to take more activities. In saying that, I'd take a projector if I had more clients, but if it's smaller groups, I'll just have a laptop there. Definitely like a portable whiteboard, quality speakers. In most of my facilitation, I'll always have short clips of videos that I can put up there because you need to break up who’s speaking and the content, rather than me driving all these information and content.
It's great to go, "Here's a little two-minute clip of an individual," maybe introducing a topic for the first time or just an interesting little activity, because like I said before, it's easy then for the individuals and for everyone in the room, if we watch a-- For example, you could put on a short clip of people arguing in a customer service environment. Then it's very easy to go, "Hey. What went wrong here?" It's quite easy and people feel confident saying, "Hey. That person was rude to that person," or "This person did that," et cetera." It's very easy for everyone. It's not confronting, because you're talking about people on the computer, you're talking about people who aren't there.
It's easy to identify that behavior, and then from that we can say, "Okay. Take those points out," rather than me standing in front of a room for a number of hour saying, "Don't be rude to customers. It's bad and they'll have an argument." Always taking visual short videos, like I said, quality speakers to get all around the room. It's something that the person sitting at the back of the room needs to be able to hear or they'll completely switch off.
It's always good, no matter where you're delivering, is to get a sense of the room that you're going to be delivering in. Reorganize that room, so it's efficient. You might be pushing all the tables to the side, having a big open space, put all the desks in circles, et cetera, et cetera. It's important to just be well prepared.
Leanne: Fantastic. That's great. You had some advice for first time facilitators and that was about keeping calm and just making sure that your preparation enables you to deliver when it's the big moment. Do you have any other advice for those starting out their facilitation journey?
Joshua: Advise for first time facilitators. It's all preparation. Give yourself enough time to get your presentation ready. Run that past someone who can give you that feedback, and then it'd probably be, don't try and squeeze too much information into any presentation. Sometimes I chair a meeting here and we have multiple presenters all the time. People have a 3-minute slot and they'll have 15 points that they're trying to make to tell people.
What you need to think about is, "Where is my presentation? Where is that in the sequence of events for that day?" Because if it's all morning and there is 10-minute slots and you're one of those 10-minute slots but there's 5 before you and 5 after, no one has the capacity to remember the 15 points you want them to remember. Write your presentation first, but then go back and clearly be able to define, "What are your key takeaways?" You need to be able to explain those things very simply, and they need to be very obvious from people going away.
Like I said, after, if you are doing a professional development week or professional development day, at the end of the day, how many things can you remember from that day? If you can be really clear and succinct and explain your concepts well and easily, people will remember that, "I can remember, yes. That guy was talking about behavior management," or whatever it was. It's good to really break it down, and don't try and add more information in to make it appear that you're right for the job.
People try to stick in so much content and it's too much. It's like a tsunami of information. It just overwhelms people and it's hard. The brain kind of turns off. It's like "Well, there's too much information here, I can't handle all this. Even if I'm writing down a few notes, it's too much. It's coming too quick." Less is more. Break it down, introduce the key concepts very simply. Then like I said, show a short little video of that concept, maybe in action. Break that video down and talk about it in a more complex way, but then also bring it back into a more simplistic way that, like I said, everyone can understand.
That's the way to get your point across, and then people will walk out of your session going, "That made sense." [laughs]
Leanne: That's really interesting, talking about the order of proceedings and where you're in, say, over day and if you've given a short period of time. What it's really about there is being memorable, is what you said, but also think about what everyone else is doing. They'll be doing what you think you should be doing, which is cramming information down. To be remembered, what you have to do is something that's a bit different. It could be just telling a story for three minutes, bringing in that video, something that no one else has done. Immediately, if your key takeaways are obvious, people will remember. That's just the key for everyone is, when you're in a day and you're one part of that, try and forecast ahead and go, "All right. Well, this is the agenda. This person will be talking about ABC. Where can I come in? What can I do to bring it to life so that my three minutes, everyone remembers that at the end of the day?" That's critical.
Joshua: Absolutely. That's right.
Leanne: Josh, where can people find you if they want to talk to you and find out more?
Joshua: I'm on the world wide web.
[laughter]
Joshua: I'm on Facebook, Broome MC & Wedding DJ. That's my events business. It's called Rise Entertainment, but that's the search you put in. I'm up here in Broome delivering training to North West Australia. That's probably the main contact.
Leanne: You can find the links to Josh's website and his LinkedIn profile and other details on the show notes for this episode. Josh, thank you so much for your time. It's great to reconnect. I love that you have this side hustle of emceeing because you've always asked us to do it within the workplace, so it's great that you're doing it for the public as well.
Joshua: Absolutely. Leanne, thinking back on knowing I'll come in today and talk about some of my things I have been doing with emceeing and event management. A lot of those things that I've actually got into is because of yourself. We've work together. You were the creative driving force in a lot of those activities. You got me a lot of those gigs, you put my name forward, so I'd like to thank you for-- It was your creativity a lot of the time which opened some of those doors to going, "Hey, geez, these things needs to happen. Someone needs to do it. Well, I'll do it." You created the opportunities, so on behalf of myself and everyone in Broome, I've just got you a little token of appreciation.
Leanne: That's lovely.
Joshua: Got you a little Broome Cycles hat, the local cycling shop. It just says "Broome" on it, with a nice sunset. You can take that back to Brisbane and all your travels overseas and just show people beautiful little Broome.
Leanne: I will. We'll have to get a selfie after we've recorded this and pop it on the show notes. You can see the hat there and a photo of Josh and I on the show notes. Thanks for that lovely compliment, and I'm proud to be part of your career development. Let's check in in a couple of years and see where we've both gone.
Joshua: Looking forward to it.
Leanne: Cool. Thanks, Josh.
Joshua: See you, mate.